Raptured

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

As i say there will be no need to stay alert if thats so, just look at the sky has it been darkened ? Not yet ? You can continue sleeping. God wont come until the sun is darkened. Very funny.

What does that have to do with it? I didn't make a claim as to when.

The obvious answer is the sun is darkened by 1/3 at the 4th trump. The sun goes out completely at the 6th seal. 

It has nothing to do with looking for the Lord or not, or sleeping or not. 

Alert? What does a darker day or night have to do with being alert?

You better be alert at all times for the Lord comes at a DAY and HOUR you think not.

[Revelation Man]

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

Maybe we are just sick of hearing false teaching.

Maybe you are just teaching false doctrine yourself because you are too stubborn to admit you are wrong. I mean, I have proven via scriptures that the Church is in heaven before the Seals are opened. We see the Church returning with Jesus after they/we receive our White Robes in Rev. 19, and you offer nothing to rebut these facts, except scriptures that I can show are null and void because I can rebut everything you put forth. Yet all you offer is someone else's old understanding, stuff I heard 30 years ago, and discounted.

The truth is, these are message board warriors who many don't go to church because they have these messages that go against Church Doctrine in many cases, they refuse to heed the scriptures and correction by elders in many cases. I mean, I see nowhere but via the Message Board Warriors these things one after the other: 1.) Jesus will not have a 1000 year reign, hes ruling now. 2.) There is no Pre trib Rapture. 3.) Almost all scriptures were fulfilled in 70 AD. 4.) Jesus shortens the 7 years he foretold would be 7 years {FUNNY} 5. Daniel 8 is not about the Little Horn of Daniel 7, it was Antiochus. 6. The Rapture was created by someone i the 1800s, which is of course FAKE NEWS. and I could go on and on. I see all this stuff on Message board, not so much in Church. 

[R. Hartono]

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

. The sun goes out completely at the 6th seal.

.

How did u know that the sun goes out completely at 6th seal

Edited June 29, 2020 by R. Hartono

[TheBlade]

Jesus told Paul.. why are you persecuting me? Lets try to remember just WHO we are really talking/typing to

The OP.. you have taken some verses out of context. You put then in a order that is not clearly there. If it was that simple.. we would not be talking. Things that don't get talked about much is... Well whos the restrainer? Lets back up. Do you right now have all power over every demon, fallen angel and Satan? So.. you have Christ in you and holy Spirit and the Father. You are ONE right now with God? And Christ said behold I gave you power. Luke " I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you."

And yet during the great tribulation a time like no other in mans history he is given power over the saints to subdue them and kill them. How can this happen? God gives him power over the Jesus in you? You are ONE with Him. You have ALL power over the enemy. So.. that lawless one? You have ALL POWER over him. He can not ever touch you. You could cast out Satan in JESUS NAME! He HAS to obey you. And the Church is not talked about after Chapter 4. The 144k are sealed, we have the two witnesses and the angel preaching the gospel not the Church.

Yet.. if the restrainer is taken out of the way.  Hmm how odd that after the restrainer is out of the way..  NOW he can come out in the open and do lying wonders. OT..yep lying wonders but once Christ born died rose.. the lawless one, Satan cannot come out in the open. He can't just one believer has all power over Him.

From everything I read in the word.. it is foolish for me to think I have the answer. No one does. You don't tell the people you love that your going to your Fathers house that has many rooms to make them a home and that you will come back and receive them unto your self so where you are they will be IF you KNEW they would die and never see it. Even Paul used the word "WE" many times. We best know that.. we don't know. Caught up will happen.

But.. if you doubt, don't believe.. you think when He comes you go? You that proud (look into what that word means) you know pre mid post? Lol.. you can't even know what happens to your self 5min from now. And we know what a GOD is going to come and get His bride? Oh I know what I believe the word points to.. but I am wise enough to get out of the way, His way and just be ready NOW!  I am not right only HE is.

Just be ready now.. that means to always be thinking of Him.. knowing He can at any moment get you and take you where He is.. that place where HE made YOU a home. That is NOT on earth.

 

[Diaste]

23 hours ago, douggg said:

Diaste, appreciate a chart.    You need to show on the chart, the beginning of the Day of the Lord, which the wrath of God starts.    The Jews and the world will be saying peace and safety right before then according to what is in 1Thessalonians5.

Would the world be saying peace and safety during the Great Tribulation ?    Where does them saying peace and safety go on your chart?

 

 

[Diaste]

9 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

How did u know that the sun goes out completely at 6th seal

"after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened" - Matt 24:29

"the sun shall be darkened," - Mark 13:24

"and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair," - Rev 6:12

"A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness," - Joel 2:2

"the sun and the moon shall be dark," - Joel 2:10

I'm convinced the sun, the moon, and the stars no longer give any light at the moment the sign of Jesus coming manifests.

[R. Hartono]

10 minutes ago, Diaste said:

"after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened" - Matt 24:29

Thats right and that doesnt make the rapture takes place after that.

The sun is darkened by the 4th sound of trumpet. If the wise virgins are not yet taken, they will suffer the 1st, 2nd and 3rd trumpets destruction and may die before taken to the feast of the Lamb.

Jesus clearly says two shall be working in the field when one is taken and another is left, people work in the field when the sun is still shining.

[Diaste]

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The truth is, these are message board warriors who many don't go to church because they have these messages that go against Church Doctrine in many cases, they refuse to heed the scriptures and correction by elders in many cases. I mean, I see nowhere but via the Message Board Warriors these things one after the other:

" These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." - Acts 17:11

Not one single Pastor, Teacher or Preacher is the authority. The only Authority is Jesus Christ and His Word of Truth. The Scriptures are the standard and the teaching and preaching I see in churches, sermons on YouTube, Facebook, etc., are found wanting.

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

1.) Jesus will not have a 1000 year reign, hes ruling now.

In a way He is ruling now. He's at the right hand of power and Glory. But Jesus will have a literal millennial reign on earth.

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

2.) There is no Pre trib Rapture.

True.

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

3.) Almost all scriptures were fulfilled in 70 AD.

As far as I can see nothing in the Olivet Discourse and the Revelation has been fulfilled.

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

4.) Jesus shortens the 7 years he foretold would be 7 years {FUNNY}

That's not what is said. The days of GT are shortened, not the full span of prophesied time.

"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." So yes, the days of GT will not stretch out longer than what our Father decides because no one would be left alive, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved"

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

5. Daniel 8 is not about the Little Horn of Daniel 7, it was Antiochus.

I have heard this too. I don't agree.

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

6. The Rapture was created by someone i the 1800s, which is of course FAKE NEWS.

The idea of pretrib was concocted by John Nelson Darby as he lay convalescing from an injury. It wasn't the idea of the Gathering, it was the timing of the gathering that was changed from the proper time to a pretrib timing. To do this Darby had to redefine a few things, which he did, and which pretrib repeats ad infinitum ad nausem.

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

and I could go on and on. I see all this stuff on Message board, not so much in Church.

That's likely because the church has become a large cult for the most part. The church doesn't allow any of the member of the congregation to speak anything the board of the church has not approved.

If a member does speak in an unapproved manner they are ostracized and eventually exiled. So if the church family and belonging and camaraderie is important to the member they shut up.

Most churches are nothing more than fiefdoms ruled by a dictator; which occasionally get together with the other self styled lords of the churches and congratulate themselves on their personal successes in subjugation, and all in the name of the Lord Jesus.

[Justin Adams]

8 minutes ago, Diaste said:

That's likely because the church has become a large cult for the most part. The church doesn't allow any of the member of the congregation to speak anything the board of the church has not approved.

If a member does speak in an unapproved manner they are ostracized and eventually exiled. So if the church family and belonging and camaraderie is important to the member they shut up.

Most churches are nothing more than fiefdoms ruled by a dictator; which occasionally get together with the other self styled lords of the churches and congratulate themselves on their personal successes in subjugation, and all in the name of the Lord Jesus.

That is very well put. It is of course entirely against the seminaries and Augustine/Calvin/Luther and the hierarchy of the reformed ideas. All meant to subjugate in a slightly less obvious way than the RCC and its wicked pogroms.

To me it seems that The Spirit has in many cases gone elsewhere. Probably to some 'heathen' village in darkest Africa where He is respected and listened to. What a turn around that might be for us that plied the opium trade and the slave markets inc.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Justin Adams

[Diaste]

10 hours ago, TheBlade said:

Jesus told Paul.. why are you persecuting me? Lets try to remember just WHO we are really talking/typing to

Is that directed only at at me or are you part of the 'we' that needs to remember 'who'?

10 hours ago, TheBlade said:

The OP.. you have taken some verses out of context. You put then in a order that is not clearly there. If it was that simple.. we would not be talking. Things that don't get talked about much is... Well whos the restrainer? Lets back up. Do you right now have all power over every demon, fallen angel and Satan? So.. you have Christ in you and holy Spirit and the Father. You are ONE right now with God? And Christ said behold I gave you power. Luke " I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you."

Out of context? When I posted all the verses? They are out of order when I copied and pasted from the passage as shown in every translation?

The power comes from Jesus. It's not in us, the power is in Him. We are imbued with authority by virtue of being on the team. We may or may not have the belief and trust in Jesus to allow heavenly authority to rule our lives. That's an individual issue and it's not the same for everyone; not is everyone in the same place nor spiritual level, nor are people of all the same conscience or strength, as Paul teaches. 

10 hours ago, TheBlade said:

And yet during the great tribulation a time like no other in mans history he is given power over the saints to subdue them and kill them. How can this happen? God gives him power over the Jesus in you? You are ONE with Him. You have ALL power over the enemy. So.. that lawless one? You have ALL POWER over him. He can not ever touch you. You could cast out Satan in JESUS NAME! He HAS to obey you. And the Church is not talked about after Chapter 4. The 144k are sealed, we have the two witnesses and the angel preaching the gospel not the Church.

Yes. Isn't it obvious? "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them:" - Rev 13

One should never ignore scripture just because it doesn't fit a belief system. But I think you mistake the teaching of Jesus. One thing that I have noticed about pretrib is the concern for the belly over the reality of the Spirit. If our understanding is not grounded in Jesus and the Spirit in the love of the Father then we tend toward fleshy desires and our understanding is diminished.  True power is in the Spirit. We are called to this: " Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." - Roman 12 

This is only in the mind and by the Spirit, not the flesh.

10 hours ago, TheBlade said:

Yet.. if the restrainer is taken out of the way.  Hmm how odd that after the restrainer is out of the way..  NOW he can come out in the open and do lying wonders. OT..yep lying wonders but once Christ born died rose.. the lawless one, Satan cannot come out in the open. He can't just one believer has all power over Him.

That is not the correct understanding of 2 Thess 2. And only Jesus has power; we reside within and under the wing of that power as we so choose. If we do not rely on Him we are powerless. Again it's the choice of the individual. The power of the Spirit is not inherent but given by the Spirit in faith and trust and belief.

10 hours ago, TheBlade said:

From everything I read in the word.. it is foolish for me to think I have the answer. No one does. You don't tell the people you love that your going to your Fathers house that has many rooms to make them a home and that you will come back and receive them unto your self so where you are they will be IF you KNEW they would die and never see it. Even Paul used the word "WE" many times. We best know that.. we don't know. Caught up will happen.

Too bad you don't have the answer. Scripture is given that we might have answers to all the important questions, the return of Jesus being the most important question imo. Scripture must answer this question of 'When', and it does.  You sound caught up in the flesh to me. Flesh cannot inherit the kingdom nor live with Jesus in power and glory; Paul teaches this unequivocally. Your silly argument is...well...silly. No flesh is going to heaven in any case. Even if we die in the body our soul is saved. You put too much emphasis on the belly instead of the Spirit.

10 hours ago, TheBlade said:

But.. if you doubt, don't believe.. you think when He comes you go? You that proud (look into what that word means) you know pre mid post? Lol.. you can't even know what happens to your self 5min from now. And we know what a GOD is going to come and get His bride? Oh I know what I believe the word points to.. but I am wise enough to get out of the way, His way and just be ready NOW!  I am not right only HE is.

Never said I knew. Jesus does and He made sure it was recorded for us. From Him we can know and understand what He says. Read and repeat. It's not in us to know spiritual things, it's only in us to believe in the Spirit and trust our Father in Jesus name concerning the Spirit. Flesh can never have understanding of the Spirit or prophecy.

10 hours ago, TheBlade said:

Just be ready now.. that means to always be thinking of Him.. knowing He can at any moment get you and take you where He is.. that place where HE made YOU a home. That is NOT on earth.