Postmillennialism: Christendom's Bright Cheerful View Of The Future Of The Human Race.

[Retrobyter]

11 hours ago, Josheb said:

Well, let's read the text of Revelation 20, since that is the ONLY place in the entirety of the Bible a "thousands years" is mentioned and see if there is other figurative language indicating the "1000 years" is also figurative. 

 

Revelation 20:1-15
"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven (the sky), holding the key (coordinates) of the abyss (Greek: abussos meaning "no bottom") and a great chain in his hand.  And he laid hold of the dragon (lizard; reptile), the serpent of old (the original snake), who is the devil (slanderer) and Satan (Hebrew for Enemy), and bound him for a thousand years;  and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.  

 

Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls (the air-breathing creatures) of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.  (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.) This is the first resurrection.  Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.  

 

When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,  and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.  And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.  And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.  

 

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.  And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.  Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.  And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

 

I trust we can ALL see there is a lot of figurative language in the chapter. 

We don't read, the key, the great chain, the dragon, the serpent, the beast, Gog, Magog, the sand, and other aspects of the chapter literally, so why the 1000 years? The whole chapter is replete with figurative language. 

Shalom, Josheb.

Sorry, but you are mistaken about these points being "figurative language." HaSatan is quite real and he WAS the original serpent or snake who deceived the woman. The ONLY term that is indeed figurative is "sand," because the passage includes the word "hoos" (omega with rough breathing, sigma) which means "like" or "as," making the phrase "as the sand of the sea" an analogy for the number of those who were deceived and went to war.

The Scriptures do NOT include the word "hoos" with the phrase "chilia etee," meaning "a thousand years." Therefore, this is a LITERAL time period of a thousand years!

11 hours ago, Josheb said:

Plus, if we look through scripture for other uses of "1000" we find a mixture of symbolic and possibly literal usage. A thousand pieces of silver used to purchase a piece of land is probably literal. David killing thousands is literally symbolic . Other places are clearly symbolic: Psalm 50:10 that tells us God owns the cattle on a thousand hills. Are we to take that literally? Or are we to understand God also owns the cattle of hill 1001, hill 1002, hill 2001, 3001.... In other words, God owns all the cattle on all the hills ever created. 

Neither one. The Hebrew words "bharreey alef," translated "a thousand hills," actually means "in-hills of-oxen," and is referring to "GRAZING hills!" While "alef" CAN mean "a thousand," it's primary meaning is an "ox!" Thus, God owns the cattle on ALL the grazing hills!

11 hours ago, Josheb said:

Furthermore, look at what the 1000 years in Revelation 20 pertains to. The devil is bound for a thousand years so as not to deceive the nations. That is what is specified. It does not say his binding in the abyss has any other limits; just that he will no longer be able to deceive the nations. Any futurist who does not limit his reading to what is literally specified is not being consistent with the text or his claim to read prophesy literally. Jude tells us the devil has been held in bondage since his rebellion!

Oops! Sorry, but that is NOT what Yhudah ("Jude") tells us! Yhudah said,

Jude 5-7 (KJV)

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The Greek word "aggeloi" in verse 6 means "MESSENGERS," not necessarily "supernatural beings!" In fact, in context, it refers to those who didn't trust God to lead the children of Israel into the Promised Land after the Exodus from Egypt!

11 hours ago, Josheb said:

Here's another matter to which we must pay attention: nowhere does the text say the thousand year reign is on earth! The thrones mentioned are all in heaven! Does anyone here think we're gonna stop reigning with Christ when a thousand years are over?

Remember also: what John is seeing is a vision. He is not watching a newscast of the future. 

Aw, sure it does! Yeshua` will return and resurrect the dead FROM THE EARTH! And, it doesn't say that He goes back from where He returned! And, MANY prophecies declare He will reign over the children of Israel FOREVER!

11 hours ago, Josheb said:

So, yes, we are certain the "1000" is figurative. The mention of the thousand years occurs in a book of the Bible that is replete with symbolism, it occurs in a chapter full of figurative language, and elsewhere in the Bible going all the way back to the Old Testament we see the term "1000" is symbolic.

Nope. The "1000" is LITERAL and is not to be seen as symbolic at all.

[Marilyn C]

17 hours ago, Josheb said:

Are you a premillennialist or Dispensationalist, Marilyn? You you actively espouse premillennialism and/or Dispensational eschatology? If so I'd like to ask you a question based on your post. I recently asked this question and no one was able (or willing?) to answer it. 

What will you do or say when after the not-long-time-to-find-out comes and goes and the rapture, or the tribulation or the second return has not happened? 

I do think that I would have to rethink my beliefs.

However I do believe you will be the one to have to rethink, for the `catching away,` is very soon, early next year, I believe. We`ll soon see.

So what will you do when you are going through the tribulation, and the world is gearing up for the anti-Christ?

[Justin Adams]

8 hours ago, Roar said:

many examples of the Bible explicitly say the opposite of the claim. 

Since you have willed not to understand John's use of the '1000' ideas, I can say no more. Just be very careful about leading others astray. So many are expecting things to happen due to bad theology and erroneous book sellers. The 'millennium' stuff has gotten way out of hand. It is so sad. Folk arguing about something that does not even exist is even more distressing.

[Justin Adams]

18 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

So what will you do when you are going through the tribulation, and the world is gearing up for the anti-Christ

Be very careful with words. Just because a Believer in Yeshua thinks such and so, does not ELIMINATE them from Salvation.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart... let us NOT lean on our own puny understandings.

[Justin Adams]

12 minutes ago, Roar said:

For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

One reason I do not follow any particular eschaton is that I do not think it is very important. What God determines to happen will happen regardless of my thoughts. I want those across the world to read this stuff and THINK WELL. Eschatology should NOT be twisted into a Salvation issue.

Also, if the 1000 years is actual future, it is way, way too short to be meaningful.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Justin Adams

[Justin Adams]

1 minute ago, Roar said:

rightly devide the Word of God to the best of my ability

If you have time, look at Dr. Heiser's UNSEEN REALM videos.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

Be very careful with words. Just because a Believer in Yeshua thinks such and so, does not ELIMINATE them from Salvation.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart... let us NOT lean on our own puny understandings.

No, but it might stop them from eagerly looking for the Lord to come. (Heb. 9: 28)

[Justin Adams]

8 minutes ago, Roar said:

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.

Merkav throne scenes are not earthly temporal concepts. This may not be relating our reality. It is a vision or perhaps an actual glimpse of the real thing.

[Justin Adams]

3 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

No, but it might stop them from eagerly looking for the Lord to come. (Heb. 9: 28)

No more so than those that think the great sky elevator is going to IMMINENTLY whisk them all away. What we say and words have meanings and subsequent results we have no idea about. All the thousands that read our public stuff here day after day will be impacted by our words.

Eschatology is hotly debated all over the place and we have to take care we never make it a Salvation issue.
Why are we so dogged in this pursuit?

7 Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority".

[Justin Adams]

2 minutes ago, Roar said:

Jesus throne in both in heaven and King David's throne from which Jesus will rule during the Millenium upon His return.

No doubt that Yeshua will return for an earthly rule, but 1000 years is way too short and is an allegory. It is so mixed up in the various 'doctrines' and presuppositions that nobody can get a clear idea since there is so much confusing other-worldly idealism mixed in.