COVID-19: Rev 6:8 and 9:18

[David1701]

12 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Indeed, the Russian Cross is one of my favorites due to it makes people ask why its so different. I then tell them the account of the two criminals on each side of Jesus. Its a great way to share the gospel.  

Amen brother! Even at the last second any man is redeemable.  

Those whom Jesus redeemed, on the cross, will be saved.  The rest will remain in their sins.

This saving of one thief and leaving the other in his sins, shows that God saves, not on the basis of any good in us, but purely out his mercy and grace.  Both deserved hell, but God gave new life, repentance and faith to one and left the other in his wickedness.

Acts 13:48 (KJV) And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Soli Deo Gloria

Edited July 18, 2020 by David1701

[Fidei Defensor]

9 hours ago, David1701 said:

The Bible (our only inspired account) says very little about Jesus' appearance; but what it does say is at odds with the accounts you have quoted.

Is. 53:2 (WEB) For he grew up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. He has no good looks or majesty. When we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 

According to the Bible, Jesus' outward appearance was not good looking or majestic.  Notice that this is in connection with Jesus growing up, so it is nothing to do with his appearance being marred at the crucifixion.

You shoukd repost this in my “What Jesus Looked Like” thread. So we can discuss it more there.  

[David1701]

43 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

You shoukd repost this in my “What Jesus Looked Like” thread. So we can discuss it more there.  

There is nothing to discuss.  God says it, I believe it, case closed.  Jesus was not handsome, the Bible says so.

I see that you have gone from one horrible avatar to another.  Do you not feel even slightly uncomfortable, showing that misrepresentation of Jesus with effeminate hair?  The Bible says that it's a shame for a man to have long hair.

[Fidei Defensor]

3 minutes ago, David1701 said:

There is nothing to discuss.  God says it, I believe it, case closed.  Jesus was not handsome, the Bible says so.

I see that you have gone from one horrible avatar to another.  Do you not feel even slightly uncomfortable, showing that misrepresentation of Jesus with effeminate hair?  The Bible says that it's a shame for a man to have long hair.

 

Long hair is part of the Nazarite vow:  

“My hair has never been cut,” he said. “I have been dedicated to God as a Nazirite from the time I was born. If my hair were cut, I would lose my strength and be as weak as anybody else.” (Judges 16:17) 

“ And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When either a man or a woman makes a special vow, the vow of a Nazirite, to separate himself to the Lord, he shall separate himself from wine and strong drink. He shall drink no vinegar made from wine or strong drink and shall not drink any juice of grapes or eat grapes, fresh or dried. All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine, not even the seeds or the skins. “All the days of his vow of separation, no razor shall touch his head. Until the time is completed for which he separates himself to the Lord, he shall be holy. He shall let the locks of hair of his head grow long.” (Numbers 6:1-27) 

The Law Said: 

“They shall not make bald patches on their heads, nor shave off the edges of their beards, nor make any cuts on their body.” (Leviticus 21:5)

Jesus was a Carpenter (Mark 6:3) before His Ministry, and it was well known that caroenters (tactons) had long hair because it covers your neckline shielding it from sunburn. 

———————-/

Comeliness differing translations: 

“He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him,” (Isiah 53:2) 

“hadar: an ornament, honor, splendor

Original Word: הָדָר
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: hadar
Phonetic Spelling: (haw-dawr')
Definition: an ornament, honor, splendor

 

ornament Proverbs 20:29 (grey hair, for old men; "" תִּפְאֶרֶת), Ezekiel 16:14 (figurative of ornaments of Jerusalem as bride of ׳י); מְּרִי עֵץ הָדָר Leviticus 23:40(H) i.e. fruit of goodly (ornamental, beautiful) trees, so AV RV & most, or goodly tree-fruit, ᵐ5 καρπόν ξύλου ὡραῖον, so Di; — here would come also בהדרי קדשׁ Psalm 110:3, reference to sacred, festal garments, according to Thes and others compare RVm; but read probably on the holy mountains, see above 

2 splendour, majesty Deuteronomy 33:17 of Ephraim under figure of a noble bull (compare Di); of Jerusalem Isaiah 5:14 compare Lamentations 1:6; of Carmel Isaiah 35:2 ("" כָּבוֺד); of majesty & dignityconferred by ׳י on man Psalm 8:6("" כָּבוֺד), on king Psalm 21:6 ("" id., הוֺד), compare Psalm 45:4 ("" הוֺד) & Psalm 45:5 (but text perhaps erroneous Che^{critical note}.); denied of suffering servant of ׳י Isaiah 53:2 ("" תֹּאַר); of dignityof good & capable woman (אֵשֶׁת חַיִל) Proverbs 31:25 ("" עֹז); of splendour due to warlike equipment Ezekiel 27:10; especially of majesty of ׳י 1 Chronicles 16:27 = Psalm 96:6, compare Job 40:10; Psalm 111:3(all "" הוֺד); also Psalm 104:1 ("" id., under figure of garment); further Psalm 29:4 ("" כֹּחַ), Psalm 90:16 ("" מֹּעַל); in combination הֲדַר כְּבוֺד הוֺדְךָ Psalm 145:5; ׳כְּבוֺד הPsalm 145:12; הֲדַר גְּאֹנוֺ Isaiah 2:10,19,21. 

3 honour, glory Psalm 149:9 for saints of ׳י; compare Micah 2:9 of ׳י's glory as possession of his people, lost by exile & slavery: but perhaps text error; Hoffm^{ZAW 1882, 103} proposes הַדְּרוֺר, from their children ye take freedom (yet מֵעַלthen hardly suitable).” (Strong Concordance) 

 

[David1701]

11 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

 

Long hair is part of the Nazarite vow:  

“My hair has never been cut,” he said. “I have been dedicated to God as a Nazirite from the time I was born. If my hair were cut, I would lose my strength and be as weak as anybody else.” (Judges 16:17) 

“ And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When either a man or a woman makes a special vow, the vow of a Nazirite, to separate himself to the Lord, he shall separate himself from wine and strong drink. He shall drink no vinegar made from wine or strong drink and shall not drink any juice of grapes or eat grapes, fresh or dried. All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine, not even the seeds or the skins. “All the days of his vow of separation, no razor shall touch his head. Until the time is completed for which he separates himself to the Lord, he shall be holy. He shall let the locks of hair of his head grow long.” (Numbers 6:1-27) 

The Law Said: 

“They shall not make bald patches on their heads, nor shave off the edges of their beards, nor make any cuts on their body.” (Leviticus 21:5)

Jesus was a Carpenter (Mark 6:3) before His Ministry, and it was well known that caroenters (tactons) had long hair because it covers your neckline shielding it from sunburn. 

———————-/

Comeliness differing translations: 

“He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him,” (Isiah 53:2) 

“hadar: an ornament, honor, splendor

Original Word: הָדָר
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: hadar
Phonetic Spelling: (haw-dawr')
Definition: an ornament, honor, splendor

 

ornament Proverbs 20:29 (grey hair, for old men; "" תִּפְאֶרֶת), Ezekiel 16:14 (figurative of ornaments of Jerusalem as bride of ׳י); מְּרִי עֵץ הָדָר Leviticus 23:40(H) i.e. fruit of goodly (ornamental, beautiful) trees, so AV RV & most, or goodly tree-fruit, ᵐ5 καρπόν ξύλου ὡραῖον, so Di; — here would come also בהדרי קדשׁ Psalm 110:3, reference to sacred, festal garments, according to Thes and others compare RVm; but read probably on the holy mountains, see above 

2 splendour, majesty Deuteronomy 33:17 of Ephraim under figure of a noble bull (compare Di); of Jerusalem Isaiah 5:14 compare Lamentations 1:6; of Carmel Isaiah 35:2 ("" כָּבוֺד); of majesty & dignityconferred by ׳י on man Psalm 8:6("" כָּבוֺד), on king Psalm 21:6 ("" id., הוֺד), compare Psalm 45:4 ("" הוֺד) & Psalm 45:5 (but text perhaps erroneous Che^{critical note}.); denied of suffering servant of ׳י Isaiah 53:2 ("" תֹּאַר); of dignityof good & capable woman (אֵשֶׁת חַיִל) Proverbs 31:25 ("" עֹז); of splendour due to warlike equipment Ezekiel 27:10; especially of majesty of ׳י 1 Chronicles 16:27 = Psalm 96:6, compare Job 40:10; Psalm 111:3(all "" הוֺד); also Psalm 104:1 ("" id., under figure of garment); further Psalm 29:4 ("" כֹּחַ), Psalm 90:16 ("" מֹּעַל); in combination הֲדַר כְּבוֺד הוֺדְךָ Psalm 145:5; ׳כְּבוֺד הPsalm 145:12; הֲדַר גְּאֹנוֺ Isaiah 2:10,19,21. 

3 honour, glory Psalm 149:9 for saints of ׳י; compare Micah 2:9 of ׳י's glory as possession of his people, lost by exile & slavery: but perhaps text error; Hoffm^{ZAW 1882, 103} proposes הַדְּרוֺר, from their children ye take freedom (yet מֵעַלthen hardly suitable).” (Strong Concordance) 

 

I wondered if you would bring out that red herring.  Jesus did not take a Nazarite vow!  He was a Nazarene (someone from Nazareth), not a Nazarite.  This means that he would have had SHORT hair, as men should have.  Long hair is a shame to a man, with the exception of the Nazarite vow, which was almost always temporary anyway and the hair was cut off at the end of it.

If Jesus had taken a Nazarite vow, which he didn't, then he would have been in breach of it, in more than one way.

There was NOTHING in Jesus' appearance that would attract us to him.  Is that clear enough for you?  It's what the Bible says.

Edited July 19, 2020 by David1701

[David1701]

11 hours ago, David1701 said:

There is nothing to discuss.  God says it, I believe it, case closed.  Jesus was not handsome, the Bible says so.

I see that you have gone from one horrible avatar to another.  Do you not feel even slightly uncomfortable, showing that misrepresentation of Jesus with effeminate hair?  The Bible says that it's a shame for a man to have long hair.

You two (Fidei Defensor (ironic?) and ChickenCoop) can "Oy Vey" all you like, the Bible is clear and those who want to please God will stick to what it says.

[BeauJangles]

1 hour ago, David1701 said:

This means that he would have had SHORT hair, as men should have.  Long hair is a shame to a man, with the exception of the Nazarite vow, which was almost always temporary anyway and the hair was cut off at the end of it.

This is simply untrue. None of us were there two thousand years ago. Some Jewish men including the priests during those days were their beards and hair long. Some did not. You're making an incorrect assumption. I'm sorry, but this is surmising. 

The Apostle Paul was a citizen of Rome and the Romans typically did wear their hair short and were by majority clean shaven. These were the styles for each cultures at this time during historical account. You need to read this scripture in correct context here. 

1 Corinthians 11:14 ¹⁴Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

Notice, this is his opinion and NOT an ordinance from the Holy Ghost? You are out of order on this. 

You are correct in saying Jesus was not a Nazarite. They do not drink wine and Jesus not only did, but turned the water into wine as His first miraculous sign. 

A Nazarite pictured below.

P.S. For the record, I wore a crew cut from between 32-52 years of age. I trim my hair and beard on occasion but do not drink wine or any other form of alcohol. 

[Fidei Defensor]

This new fad to say Jesus had short hair and no beard actually is an ancient Roman idea (see pic). Some people use such art to prove Jesus looked clean shaven and short hair, but its actually cultural approbation, just like in China Jesus looks Oriental (see pic).  

However Jesus had a beard because the Law says, “'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.” (Leviticus 19:27) and Jesus being a Son of David (Romans 1:1-9) would have blended in. 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[BeauJangles]

28 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

This new fad to say Jesus had short hair and no beard actually is an ancient Roman idea (see pic). Some people use such art to prove Jesus looked clean shaven and short hair, but its actually cultural approbation, just like in China Jesus looks Oriental (see pic).  

However Jesus had a beard because the Law says, “'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.” (Leviticus 19:27) and Jesus being a Son of David (Romans 1:1-9) would have blended in. 

Absolutely. I'm behind you on this one. Some of our ultra conservatives who object to long hair on men in general, have said that Jesus being a former carpenter had to have very short and practical hair/beard or no because of the weather in Israel being a very arid one. Hair was bound commonly with a cotton head covering or even a band keeping it out of the way and sweat into the facial areas. Short hair? Yeah, right. Sure. 

[Fidei Defensor]

2 minutes ago, BeauJangles said:

Absolutely. I'm behind you on this one. Some of our ultra conservatives who object to long hair on men in general, have said that Jesus being a former carpenter had to have very short and practical hair/beard or no because of the weather in Israel being a very arid one. Hair was bound commonly with a cotton head covering or even a band keeping it out of the way and sweat into the facial areas. Short hair? Yeah, right. Sure. 

Indeed, the argument I read is Carpenters or Tactons (Stone Mason-Carpenters)  in Antiquity wore long hair to cover their neckline to prevent sun burn.