COVID-19: Rev 6:8 and 9:18

[David1701]

12 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Look it up Phoebe is “Deaconess, which also translates minister and is a leader.”:  

“Deacon, (from Greek diakonos,“helper”), a member of the lowest rank of the threefold Christian ministry (below the presbyter-priest and bishop) or, in various Protestant churches, a lay official, usually ordained, who shares in the ministry and sometimes in the governance of a congregation.” (Deacon, Encyclopedia Britannica)  

“Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are at Philippi, with the overseers and deacons.” (Philippians 1:1). 

Nympha in my studies comes out the feminine: 

“WH Tr marginal reading read Νύμφαν, i. e. Nympha, the name of a woman; see especially Lightfoot ad loc, and p. 256).” (Colossians 2:15, Bible Hub)

There is the office of deacon (only male) and there are people who give practical help but who are not in the office (male and female).

The reading Nympha is a minority reading, not found in the Majority Text or the Received Text.  I do not subscribe to the theories and duplicity of Westcott, Hort, et al.

[BeauJangles]

6 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I haven’t figured out how anyons blocks anybody. 

i’m block-blind.  

Yeah. Well, just like everything else in life... It happens! 

And have a nice day! 

[Fidei Defensor]

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

There is the office of deacon (only male) and there are people who give practical help but who are not in the office (male and female).

The reading Nympha is a minority reading, not found in the Majority Text or the Received Text.  I do not subscribe to the theories and duplicity of Westcott, Hort, et al.

Can you state why you think women shouldn't lead? Was it not a societal thing because of the times or do you think because God the Trinity is male, “Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,” that is grounds for patriarchal leadership.  

Edited July 21, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[David1701]

2 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Can you state why you think women shouldn't lead? Was it not a societal thing because of the times or do you think because God the Trinity is male, “Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,” that is grounds for patriarchal leadership.  

I didn't actually say that women shouldn't lead, although I do believe that leadership is male.

The point I made was that the office of deacon is male, according to the Bible.

1 Tim. 3:8-12 (KJV)

8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Deacons must be husbands - this means male.  The same goes for elders.

The main reason why leadership is male is that God created Adam in his image and Eve was made from one of his ribs, as a helper for him.  This immediately places authority with the man, as part of God's created order.

[Fidei Defensor]

1 hour ago, David1701 said:

I didn't actually say that women shouldn't lead, although I do believe that leadership is male.

The point I made was that the office of deacon is male, according to the Bible.

1 Tim. 3:8-12 (KJV)

8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Deacons must be husbands - this means male.  The same goes for elders.

The main reason why leadership is male is that God created Adam in his image and Eve was made from one of his ribs, as a helper for him.  This immediately places authority with the man, as part of God's created order.

I saw the Scripture about deacons being husbands and was like “yeah that states deacons are men.” 

The more word for word translations say of Phoebe: 

“I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea.” (Romans 16:1 NASB, ESV) 

Is not servant here what Jesus said?, “But Jesus called them aside and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their superiors exercise authority over them. It shall not be this way among you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave—just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.” (Matthew 20:25-28).  

[David1701]

49 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I saw the Scripture about deacons being husbands and was like “yeah that states deacons are men.” 

The more word for word translations say of Phoebe: 

“I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea.” (Romans 16:1 NASB, ESV) 

Is not servant here what Jesus said?, “But Jesus called them aside and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their superiors exercise authority over them. It shall not be this way among you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave—just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.” (Matthew 20:25-28).  

A leader is to be a servant; but being a servant does not make you a leader.  It's like a Venn diagram, in which the largest circle is of servants and smaller circles within it are leaders and others.

[Fidei Defensor]

2 minutes ago, David1701 said:

A leader is to be a servant; but being a servant does not make you a leader.  It's like a Venn diagram, in which the largest circle is of servants and smaller circles within it are leaders and others.

Christ our Lord did not seem pleased with titles: 

“in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” (Matthew 23:7-12) 

[David1701]

3 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Christ our Lord did not seem pleased with titles: 

“in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” (Matthew 23:7-12) 

I'm not interested in titles either.  Being a leader is not a title, it is an office.  Deacons should not be called Deacon Joe, or whatever; but the office of deacon is what they carry out.

[David1701]

2 minutes ago, Abby-Joy said:

Actually, women are also part of the "image of God" that He created in mankind. If you study it out, the unity of man and woman in marriage/becoming one speaks of the image of God ...

Genesis 1:27

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.” 

Yes, this is certainly true.  I hope you didn't get a different impression from my posts; that was definitely not my intention.

[Fidei Defensor]

18 minutes ago, David1701 said:

I'm not interested in titles either.  Being a leader is not a title, it is an office.  Deacons should not be called Deacon Joe, or whatever; but the office of deacon is what they carry out.

Indeed, it says gifts not titles: 

“Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers.” (Ephesians 4:11)