COVID-19: Rev 6:8 and 9:18

[Fidei Defensor]

7 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Hmm...

I've spotted a couple of points that need to be addressed, in your earlier post.

The "less difficult life of teaching"?  Are you serious?  Have you ever done any teaching?  I suspect not, because, if you had, you would not have posted this.

Firstly, it's not "teachers and deacons", it's apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors/teachers, elders and deacons; secondly, there is no mistake in people with different abilities doing different tasks; thirdly, since all Scripture is breathed out by God, the criteria for choosing elders and deacons are of God.

I say least difficult life of teaching doesn’t mean good teachers, people can form words and even be false teachers. My point is if a person has to choose between teaching a sermon (they could cut and paste an old one from Jonathan Edwards) and going to a Nursing Home to take care of senior citzens and wipe their bottoms after they go to bathroom or host a function and have to coordinate all the food, drink, place settings, and etc; which do you think most people will chose? 

Compare how many pseudo-teachers and real good teachers there are with blogs and youtube channels to those involved in Red Cross, Food Distrubution, Hospice, and etc.  

[David1701]

1 hour ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I say least difficult life of teaching doesn’t mean good teachers, people can form words and even be false teachers. My point is if a person has to choose between teaching a sermon (they could cut and paste an old one from Jonathan Edwards) and going to a Nursing Home to take care of senior citzens and wipe their bottoms after they go to bathroom or host a function and have to coordinate all the food, drink, place settings, and etc; which do you think most people will chose? 

Compare how many pseudo-teachers and real good teachers there are with blogs and youtube channels to those involved in Red Cross, Food Distrubution, Hospice, and etc.  

I see; so, you were comparing genuine practical helpers with fake teachers.  This is an apples and oranges comparison.

[Fidei Defensor]

1 hour ago, David1701 said:

I see; so, you were comparing genuine practical helpers with fake teachers.  This is an apples and oranges comparison.

My point was when Jesus told us to be servants (Matthew 20:28) it was teacher and deacon combined, the apostles (except Paul) chose to split the two into two branches of teacher and deacon. This was not good for disciples, we are suppose to teach (Hebrews 5:12) and tend to our brothers and sisters in Christ’s physical needs (James 2:14-17).  

[David1701]

2 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

My point was when Jesus told us to be servants (Matthew 20:28) it was teacher and deacon combined, the apostles (except Paul) chose to split the two into two branches of teacher and deacon. This was not good for disciples, we are suppose to teach (Hebrews 5:12) and tend to our brothers and sisters in Christ’s physical needs (James 2:14-17).  

All Scripture is God-breathed, not just some of it.  It is in perfect harmony.  If it seems otherwise, that is evidence that your interpretation needs to be amended.

[Fidei Defensor]

1 hour ago, David1701 said:

All Scripture is God-breathed, not just some of it.  It is in perfect harmony.  If it seems otherwise, that is evidence that your interpretation needs to be amended.

It is indeed God Breathed (2 Timothy 3:16, 2 Peter 1:20-22), but the apostles admit when they make mistakes: 

“After all this had happened, Paul decided to go to Jerusalem,” (Acts 19:21) Which then was rebuked by prophets (Acts 21). 

The Scriptures are divinely inspired (2 Timothy 3:16), but there were times the apostles made decisions without the Holy Spirit’s leading, an example was when Peter rejected the Gentiles by not eating with them: 

 “But when Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him in public, because he was clearly wrong. 12 Before some men who had been sent by James arrived there, Peter had been eating with the Gentile believers. But after these men arrived, he drew back and would not eat with the Gentiles, because he was afraid of those who were in favor of circumcising them. 13 The other Jewish believers also started acting like cowards along with Peter; and even Barnabas was swept along by their cowardly action. 14 When I saw that they were not walking a straight path in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you have been living like a Gentile, not like a Jew. How, then, can you try to force Gentiles to live like Jews?” (Galatians 2:11-14) 

The Scriptures are infallible, but they do tell us the apostles were fallible;  made mistakes and within the Scripture is a testimony of their mistakes being recorded and corrected by the LORD Trinity.  

I do admit that in the context of the day when Acts 6 happened it might have been beneficial at the time, but longterm it was dry rot to split Servant into Teacher and Deacon groups. As the apostle James testifies in James 2. 

Paul admitted apostles like himself were not perfect, “This is a trustworthy saying, and everyone should accept it: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”—and I am the worst of them all,” (1 Timothy 1:15), and “Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.” (1 Corinthians 13:12) 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[David1701]

8 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

It is indeed God Breathed (2 Timothy 3:16, 2 Peter 1:20-22), but the apostles admit when they make mistakes: 

“After all this had happened, Paul decided to go to Jerusalem,” (Acts 19:21) Which then was rebuked by prophets (Acts 21). 

The Scriptures are divinely inspired (2 Timothy 3:16), but there were times the apostles made decisions without the Holy Spirit’s leading, an example was when Peter rejected the Gentiles by not eating with them: 

 “But when Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him in public, because he was clearly wrong. 12 Before some men who had been sent by James arrived there, Peter had been eating with the Gentile believers. But after these men arrived, he drew back and would not eat with the Gentiles, because he was afraid of those who were in favor of circumcising them. 13 The other Jewish believers also started acting like cowards along with Peter; and even Barnabas was swept along by their cowardly action. 14 When I saw that they were not walking a straight path in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you have been living like a Gentile, not like a Jew. How, then, can you try to force Gentiles to live like Jews?” (Galatians 2:11-14) 

The Scriptures are infallible, but they do tell us the apostles were fallible;  made mistakes and within the Scripture is a testimony of their mistakes being recorded and corrected by the LORD Trinity.  

I do admit that in the context of the day when Acts 6 happened it might have been beneficial at the time, but longterm it was dry rot to split Servant into Teacher and Deacon groups. As the apostle James testifies in James 2. 

Paul admitted apostles like himself were not perfect, “This is a trustworthy saying, and everyone should accept it: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”—and I am the worst of them all,” (1 Timothy 1:15), and “Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.” (1 Corinthians 13:12) 

The doctrine in the Bible is perfect.  Errors in life are recorded but the teaching passages are in perfect harmony.  If you start saying that some of the teaching is in error, then doctrine becomes a matter of opinion and there is no objective standard.  This is a route to anarchy, division and unbelief.  You are putting yourself in danger with this view.

Edited July 23, 2020 by David1701

[Fidei Defensor]

8 hours ago, David1701 said:

The doctrine in the Bible is perfect.  Errors in life are recorded but the teaching passages are in perfect harmony.  If you start saying that some of the teaching is in error, then doctrine becomes a matter of opinion and there is no objective standard.  This is a route to anarchy, division and unbelief.  You are putting yourself in danger with this view.

You are reiterating what I said, do you read my posts? It seems to me you are determined to see anarchy that is not there in my words. 

I said Scripture is infallible, and yes the theology, doctrine, and teaching in the passages of the Bible are perfect.  

My dispute is with those apostles who did not follow the teaching of Christ to be “servants” (Matthew 20:26-28) and who instead split the minstry of servant into two seperate groups of teacxer and deacon. Just as Peter made the mistake of neglecting the Gentiles and Paul called Him out on it. 

When apostles split servant in two (Acts 6) it was an adminstrative decision, not a doctrinal or theological decision. People make a adminstrative errors all the time.  

Edited July 23, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[BeauJangles]

3 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

You are reiterating what I said, do you read my posts?

Well brother, I've suspected perhaps you also could have been found placement into the "total block mode" as I have been indicated what happened. All my efforts seem to have been just a senseless waste of my saliva in trying to get through to the addressee as you're attempting to do. Perfectly valid and sensible practical posts up in ashes and smouldering fumes of exhaust. Oh well. I guess we'll all just...

Have a nice day! 

[Fidei Defensor]

23 minutes ago, BeauJangles said:

Well brother, I've suspected perhaps you also could have been found placement into the "total block mode" as I have been indicated what happened. All my efforts seem to have been just a senseless waste of my saliva in trying to get through to the addressee as you're attempting to do. Perfectly valid and sensible practical posts up in ashes and smouldering fumes of exhaust. Oh well. I guess we'll all just...

Have a nice day! 

And it isn’t Ash Wednesday!  

[David1701]

4 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

You are reiterating what I said, do you read my posts? It seems to me you are determined to see anarchy that is not there in my words. 

I said Scripture is infallible, and yes the theology, doctrine, and teaching in the passages of the Bible are perfect.  

My dispute is with those apostles who did not follow the teaching of Christ to be “servants” (Matthew 20:26-28) and who instead split the minstry of servant into two seperate groups of teacxer and deacon. Just as Peter made the mistake of neglecting the Gentiles and Paul called Him out on it. 

When apostles split servant in two (Acts 6) it was an adminstrative decision, not a doctrinal or theological decision. People make a adminstrative errors all the time.  

Deacons are practical servants and elders are spiritual leaders.  The criteria are slightly different for these distinct offices.  It was not an administrative error for those who are called to minister the word of God, to focus on that, nor was it an administrative error to give trusted people the task of helping practically.  You can provide no evidence for your claim.