Should a Church forgive a pastor for deceiving police during a stressful moment?

[ayin jade]

2 hours ago, Knotical said:

I am aware of what the bible says.  But if someone has been forgiven by God then everything should be forgotten, which means he would, at that point, be above reproach, right?

Our sins are forgiven and forgotten, but when we forgive, where does it say that earthly consequences are gone? Do you believe this person can effectively lead the flock? 

[Knotical]

9 hours ago, ayin jade said:

Our sins are forgiven and forgotten, but when we forgive, where does it say that earthly consequences are gone? Do you believe this person can effectively lead the flock? 

That's the rub isn't it.  Why should we, as lesser beings than God, continue to hold someone accountable for something God has forgiven them for?

I do tend to agree that such a person should not be called to that kind of service, however, there is the dilemma of what God's will is for that person's life, and are we then either in line with, or against, God's will by preventing that person from serving in that capacity?

[Wesley L]

52 minutes ago, Knotical said:

That's the rub isn't it.  Why should we, as lesser beings than God, continue to hold someone accountable for something God has forgiven them for?

I do tend to agree that such a person should not be called to that kind of service, however, there is the dilemma of what God's will is for that person's life, and are we then either in line with, or against, God's will by preventing that person from serving in that capacity?

God's will is very clear on who is eligible to lead His flock. This man currently certainly is not.
God's will is also clear about forgiveness.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Wesley L

[R. Hartono]

1 hour ago, Knotical said:

That's the rub isn't it.  Why should we, as lesser beings than God, continue to hold someone accountable for something God has forgiven them for?

I do tend to agree that such a person should not be called to that kind of service, however, there is the dilemma of what God's will is for that person's life, and are we then either in line with, or against, God's will by preventing that person from serving in that capacity?

Dogs returned to its vomit, hypocrites will continue if not busted.

 

[R. Hartono]

15 minutes ago, Wesley L said:

God's will is very clear on who is eligible to lead His flock. This man currently certainly is not.
God's will is also clear about forgiveness.

Thats exactly two different things.

[Knotical]

27 minutes ago, Wesley L said:

God's will is very clear on who is eligible to lead His flock. This man currently certainly is not.
God's will is also clear about forgiveness.

But doesn't God's forgiveness completely wipe the slate clean, thus making him eligible?

[Wesley L]

16 minutes ago, Knotical said:

But doesn't God's forgiveness completely wipe the slate clean, thus making him eligible?

The point was that this pastor was addicted to alcohol, DUI, got caught and was seemingly cleaned up.
Which wasn't the case and he had a bag of cocaine which he tried to hide from the cops.

Being forgiven is one thing, staying sober is another thing.
Is this person truly a christian? Does the Holy Spirit live inside him? We don't know. But his actions make a lot of believers doubt And putting such a man at such an important position would not edify the believers in church. 
This person can go to church of course. But he should not lead, as he has shown himself to be a bad leader. He will make weak christians stumble, which is against God's will.

There are addicted people who became believers. Got clean and even went preaching and sharing their testimony.
If this DUI pastor we are talking about truly repents, cleans up his life and truly followed Christ. Someday God may use him again as a teacher. But now is certainly not the moment.
 

 

[ReneeIW]

27 minutes ago, Knotical said:

But doesn't God's forgiveness completely wipe the slate clean, thus making him eligible?

Just my opinion, but we shouldn’t do this to one another- the petty arguments and picking apart- because we have a whole world out there attacking Christianity. I don’t think it’s helpful to make Christianity appear to contradict itself or be void of common sense.

God’s forgiveness wipes the slate clean in regards to salvation. And only God can tell if someone has truly repented; therefore, the church has to look at the prior and current fruit of the person and see if it is in line to what scripture says is acceptable for a leader.

My confusion is why the deception they read about in the police report seemed to be the nail in the coffin. I would think the drugs would have been. But I guess lying speaks to character and drugs to human weakness. In my opinion, he was not qualified from the get-go. But I do know of pastors who have talked about their past alcoholism, drug addiction and my mother told me her Former pastor said he used to be addicted to pornography and blamed a dirty magazine he found in his father’s Dresser drawer when he was a kid. Not sure what’s going on in some churches. There are secular organizations with much stricter standards.

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by ReneeIW

[ReneeIW]

13 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Did he do it be4 being born again ? Isnt he alrdy a pastor ? Parroting Biblical verses is easy, from their fruits u can recognize them

Yes he did it being born again.

He comes from a strong Christian heritage with pastors in the family. He was an alcoholic and addict from mid twenties until 43. Then stopped miraculously and believed he was able to stop because he had been called to the ministry. Recently relapsed and went to rehab. He is almost 70 years old now.

 

[Knotical]

2 hours ago, ReneeIW said:

Just my opinion, but we shouldn’t do this to one another- the petty arguments and picking apart- because we have a whole world out there attacking Christianity. I don’t think it’s helpful to make Christianity appear to contradict itself or be void of common sense.

God’s forgiveness wipes the slate clean in regards to salvation. And only God can tell if someone has truly repented; therefore, the church has to look at the prior and current fruit of the person and see if it is in line to what scripture says is acceptable for a leader.

My confusion is why the deception they read about in the police report seemed to be the nail in the coffin. I would think the drugs would have been. But I guess lying speaks to character and drugs to human weakness. In my opinion, he was not qualified from the get-go. But I do know of pastors who have talked about their past alcoholism, drug addiction and my mother told me her Former pastor said he used to be addicted to pornography and blamed a dirty magazine he found in his father’s Dresser drawer when he was a kid. Not sure what’s going on in some churches. There are secular organizations with much stricter standards.

 

Not sure how you saw this as a petty argument.  I was merely continuing the conversation to flesh out the different sides this could bring up.  Personally, I would not recommend someone for a call if they had a criminal history (regardless of what they were convicted of).