The third horseman of the apocalypse

[iamlamad]

On 7/31/2020 at 4:41 PM, SONshine said:

I’ll let you study on your own now.   God bless. 
 

I can only guess: you don't even want to try and answer the questions Jesus asked me. 

They will always be there for people to wonder about.

It is an absolute fact: when John first saw the vision of the throne room, He did NOT see Jesus at the right hand of the Father.
It is an absolute fact: John saw the Holy Spirit there in the throne room in chapter 4 - as the 7 spirits of God.
It is an absolute fact: John watched a search for one worthy to take the book and open the seals - and that search ended in failure. No man was found.

[ENOCH2010]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I can only guess: you don't even want to try and answer the questions Jesus asked me. 

They will always be there for people to wonder about.

It is an absolute fact: when John first saw the vision of the throne room, He did NOT see Jesus at the right hand of the Father.
It is an absolute fact: John saw the Holy Spirit there in the throne room in chapter 4 - as the 7 spirits of God.
It is an absolute fact: John watched a search for one worthy to take the book and open the seals - and that search ended in failure. No man was found.

Nope that's your interpretation, it's not "absolute fact".

[iamlamad]

Just now, ENOCH2010 said:

Nope that's your interpretation, it's not "absolute fact".

So show us the verse where John saw Jesus at the right hand of the Father.

As for the Holy Spirit, read 4:5.

Facts are facts.  How can one interpret "no man was found" other than NO MAN WAS FOUND?

Can you come up with another meaning?

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Not true at all. OF COURSE chapters 2 and 3 are about the churches. It was around 95 AD. Learn to tell the difference between reality and a vision. 

Note: a vision can be of the past, present, future, or a mixture of all of them. In John's vision, he was shown events of the past, of his present (95 AD) and many events in his future.  Don't put God it a "future" box and declare that He could not have shown John things in the past. He DID show John events of the past. In chapter 12, He showed John when Satan was kicked out of heaven and took 1/3 of the angels with him. That would be very long past. Then He showed John Jesus birth, life, and ascension in one sentence. That too was past tense for John in 95 AD.

Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

You take it your way, I take it mine.  You take it as that "one day of the week" which ever day that is for you, and  I take it as the Lords Day

[iamlamad]

45 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

You take it your way, I take it mine.  You take it as that "one day of the week" which ever day that is for you, and  I take it as the Lords Day

Show us a verse that tells us the "Day of the Lord" is also called "the Lord's Day."  I have never found such a verse.  Next, John's vision encompassed far more than "the day of the Lord."  As soon as John was called up and saw the vision of the throne room, it was the throne room of his past, not the 95 Ad throne room.  Was 95 AD "the Lord's day" or the "Day of the Lord?" I hardly think so. 

This is why I disagree with you here. 

[DeighAnn]

14 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Was 95 AD "the Lord's day" or the "Day of the Lord?" I hardly think so. 

 I agree.  I hardly think so too.  

Because if it wasn't the Lords Day then it would have read 

I was in the Spirit ON THE SABBATH

Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

Lord's

2960 kuriakos
of the Lord, Special to the Lord

From 2962  
kyrios - properly a person exercising absolute ownership rights, 

 kyrios likewise denotes an owner, master exercising full rights
 

 

1 Corinthians 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

1 Corinthians 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

1 Corinthians 11:21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

1 Corinthians 11:22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

1 Corinthians 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

1 Corinthians 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1 Corinthians 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

1 Corinthians 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

[Last Daze]

On 7/31/2020 at 2:48 PM, SONshine said:

The symbolic white horse is none other than the false messiah who plays his role as the antichrist.  This is the first seal.

Or . . . it could be the evil spirit being who empowers the man of sin riding forth to set the stage.  The two are very closely connected.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

Or . . . it could be the evil spirit being who empowers the man of sin riding forth to set the stage.  The two are very closely connected.

That would not be impossible, for John told us the Spirit of Antichrist was alive and well back then. 
However, the subject was the white horse at the first seal. That first seal was opened just as soon and Jesus ascended and got the book into His own hands: around 32 AD. 

the question is, would God allow John to use the color white 16 times to represent righteousness and then once for evil? I say NEVER. the white horse MUST therefore represent something righteous.  I think in prophecy most would agree the horse represents warfare of some kind, as would a bow. 

Was there a righteous entity on earth when Jesus ascended into heaven? Certainly there was: the infant church.  Was the church commanded to take the gospel to the nations? Certainly it was. Would that take some overcoming and or conquering? Without a doubt. 

Did the devil then go all out to try and stop the church? Certainly he has: using wars, famines, pestilences, and wild beasts. 

We MUST keep verses in their context. 

[Retrobyter]

On 8/3/2020 at 3:38 PM, iamlamad said:

That would not be impossible, for John told us the Spirit of Antichrist was alive and well back then. 
However, the subject was the white horse at the first seal. That first seal was opened just as soon and Jesus ascended and got the book into His own hands: around 32 AD. 

the question is, would God allow John to use the color white 16 times to represent righteousness and then once for evil? I say NEVER. the white horse MUST therefore represent something righteous.  I think in prophecy most would agree the horse represents warfare of some kind, as would a bow. 

Was there a righteous entity on earth when Jesus ascended into heaven? Certainly there was: the infant church.  Was the church commanded to take the gospel to the nations? Certainly it was. Would that take some overcoming and or conquering? Without a doubt. 

Did the devil then go all out to try and stop the church? Certainly he has: using wars, famines, pestilences, and wild beasts. 

We MUST keep verses in their context. 

Shalom, iamlamad.

That's NOT "keeping verses in their context." That's "keeping verses in your theological agenda!"

White is just a color. It's WRONG to say it "represented righteousness" or "evil!" UNLESS the text actually SAYS it "represented" something, a person is WRONG to say it does! Some say "spiritual interpretation" instead of "allegorical interpretation." Not only is that allegorical interpretation, it is not "spiritual" at all! If one says that Revelation said "such and such," coming from allegorical interpretation, then one has "ADDED to the words of the prophecy of this book," a dangerous practice.

Revelation 22:18-19 (KJV)

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book,

If any man shall add unto these things,
God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy,
God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

[iamlamad]

18 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, iamlamad.

That's NOT "keeping verses in their context." That's "keeping verses in your theological agenda!"

White is just a color. It's WRONG to say it "represented righteousness" or "evil!" UNLESS the text actually SAYS it "represented" something, a person is WRONG to say it does! Some say "spiritual interpretation" instead of "allegorical interpretation." Not only is that allegorical interpretation, it is not "spiritual" at all! If one says that Revelation said "such and such," coming from allegorical interpretation, then one has "ADDED to the words of the prophecy of this book," a dangerous practice.

Revelation 22:18-19 (KJV)

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book,

If any man shall add unto these things,
God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy,
God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

So we disagree again. Not a big thing: we usually do. It is absolute truth that John used the word "white" (the Greek behind it) 17 times. And every time with meaning attached. 

What does white represent in these verses?

Revelation 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. [Here white would be sin-free or without sin, as having been washed in the blood.]

Revelation 19:8
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. [here white is to represent righteousness.]

How about Christ's "white" horse? 
How about the pure and "white" linen as clothing angel wear?
How about clean and white linen the armies of heaven will wear?  
How about the white cloud one like the Son of Man is seen seated on? 

Is it a stretch to say "white" in these verses means just what it meant in these two examples? 

Yes, it is a color, but it is a color GOD USED. And in two cases came right out and told us His meaning.  Perhaps you are of the persuasion that the first white horse is white only by accident - perhaps John liked white. Did John see a white horse, or not? 

Finally, sorry, this is not "adding. " what it IS is understanding - something few seem want to do here. 

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by iamlamad