The Pre Tribulation Raptured Church

[DeighAnn]

If you had been caught as a Christian and fed to the lions or perhaps had been attached to a wall and doused with oil and set ON FIRE to light up the street that night, or

SAY,  Crucifixion?   

Would you think your tribulation HAD BEEN GREAT?

Look back at ALL THOSE who have SUFFERED in the NAME OF GOD OVER THE PAST couple thousand years. 

A small percentage??  Dream on. 

and it was said unto them, that they should REST yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

They have to wait until AFTER Satan (yet a little season)  for their fellowservants and brethren to be killed

FOR THE DAY OF VENGEANCE.  VIALS 





 

[DeighAnn]

Who ministers to whom and where?  Is it the "gentile church" or the 24 elders mean something different? 
 

Ezekiel 44:10 And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.

Ezekiel 44:11 Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.

Ezekiel 44:12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity.

Ezekiel 44:13 And they shall   NOT   come near unto me,

to do the office of a priest unto me, 

nor to come near to any of my holy things, 

in the most holy place: 

but they shall bear their shame, 
and their abominations which they have committed.

 

Ezekiel 44:14 But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.


So, DOES GOD TELL US WHO DOES COME NEAR TO THE HOLY THINGS, IN THE MOST HOLY PLACE?

  yessss

Ezekiel 44:15

But the priests the Levites, 

the sons of Zadok, 

that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, 

they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood,

saith the Lord GOD

They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge.

Ezekiel 44:17 And it shall come to pass, that when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within.

  THE PRIESTS, THE LEVITES, THE SONS OF ZADOK. 

 

  

Edited August 22, 2020 by DeighAnn
non helpful sarcasm

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

If you had been caught as a Christian and fed to the lions or perhaps had been attached to a wall and doused with oil and set ON FIRE to light up the street that night, or

SAY,  Crucifixion?   

Would you think your tribulation HAD BEEN GREAT?

Look back at ALL THOSE who have SUFFERED in the NAME OF GOD OVER THE PAST couple thousand years. 

A small percentage??  Dream on. 

and it was said unto them, that they should REST yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

They have to wait until AFTER Satan (yet a little season)  for their fellowservants and brethren to be killed

FOR THE DAY OF VENGEANCE.  VIALS 
 

I think we miss the point. GT is what is used to bring the people of God back to God. A fiery trial. A path to the cleansing of the heart and mind and spirit. And GT is not final as one has the moment to seek God amidst the pressure of the trial. GT is designed to drive the people of God to their Savior through tough times. Look back at the history of God's people. What happened when they were comfy and safe?

They sacrificed to idols and knelt before false gods. Within 40 days and they had a golden calf and descended into debauchery.

God's wrath is final. And this is the really scary part. This finality ends in the eternal torment of the lake of fire. GT and God's wrath are no where close to equivalent. 

We have to get out of this limited, temporal, corporeal mindset of the eyes, the flesh and pride and begin to realize we are faced with eternity as spiritual beings of forever existing God.

GT will come to cleanse the church and eternal wrath will befall all who refuse the gift of salvation.

 

[Moby]

Hi DeighAnn!

That is awesome way to spell your name that I don't believe I ever saw before!

I too have been searching high and low over the years for a solid explanation for the timing of the rapture and I think I found it. I started a post this morning in this forum to get others feed and here is a portion of it:

When I searched for "the rapture is after the tribulation" this link came up on the first page:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

In all of my searches on the subject of the rapture, this is the first link that provides multitudes of scripture to prove there is another full year after the 7 years of tribulation that the author says is when the "day of the Lord" takes place.

Have you ever heard of this teaching? I would have copied and pasted the contents of the link here but it is just too voluminous with scripture so could someone with a hunger of this topic take a look at it so we can discuss it as it certainly has my attention?

 

[DeighAnn]

 

9 hours ago, Diaste said:

God's wrath is final. And this is the really scary part. This finality ends in the eternal torment of the lake of fire. GT and God's wrath are no where close to equivalent. 

We have to get out of this limited, temporal, corporeal mindset of the eyes, the flesh and pride and begin to realize we are faced with eternity as spiritual beings of forever existing God.

GT will come to cleanse the church and eternal wrath will befall all who refuse the gift of salvation.

When we will be priests to reign with Christ for 1000 yrs, who will we be ministering to?  Who will we be going to see,  that will require 7 days of cleansing to be back in Gods presence?  


 

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, Moby said:

Hi DeighAnn!

That is awesome way to spell your name that I don't believe I ever saw before!

I too have been searching high and low over the years for a solid explanation for the timing of the rapture and I think I found it. I started a post this morning in this forum to get others feed and here is a portion of it:

When I searched for "the rapture is after the tribulation" this link came up on the first page:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

In all of my searches on the subject of the rapture, this is the first link that provides multitudes of scripture to prove there is another full year after the 7 years of tribulation that the author says is when the "day of the Lord" takes place.

Have you ever heard of this teaching? I would have copied and pasted the contents of the link here but it is just too voluminous with scripture so could someone with a hunger of this topic take a look at it so we can discuss it as it certainly has my attention?

 

Hi Moby, 

I kinda liked the way it was spelled too!!  

I have never heard nor read of a 7 year of tribulation during the Lords Day.  

Simplicity in Christ.   Thessalonians tells us it without a doubt it is after the workings of Satan.  (Lords Day and Satan bound run concurrent).  No need for Gods wrath to fall on anyone until everyone has chosen their side.  Once wrath has fallen,  what would be the point of any testing  for the next 7 years?  Teaching yes, but testing?  If they weren't ready before the wrath they certainly wont be ready right after.  They have lots to learn.  It makes no sense under any condition I can think of.  Sounds to me like a Kenite trying to waste our time.  

There will be only one more time of test/tribulation after this one and that will be when Satan is loosed for a short season at the end of the Lords Day.  He is the only Adversary, no matter what name we give him.  

Thanks for the offer but I don't want to read stuff like that.  I will  say I have never seen anything close to that doctrine in the Word of God.  I know people can put together what ever they want BUT when they do, and that delusion sets in , its like no matter how many ways or times you show them it voiding out Gods Word, they remain completely deaf to it and push right on through to what they are supporting anyhow.  So keep your eyes open and prove what is said in the Word before you believe it.  If they say  "it says this" and you go a reading it and the subjects aren't the same, RUN AWAY or they will suck you into the whirlpool and you are doing nothing but wasting precious time.  

[DeighAnn]

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

I think we miss the point. GT is what is used to bring the people of God back to God. A fiery trial. A path to the cleansing of the heart and mind and spirit.

I was, I think, and I most certainly could be wrong, addressing the souls under the altar and whether they had gone through great tribulation.  So I may have missed the point. IDK.  Gonna take a break, I think

[The Light]

On 8/21/2020 at 8:31 AM, iamlamad said:

No, what really comes to mind is water off a duck's back.  No coincidence, just rightly dividing. I don't assume two passages are the same event just because two words line up. 

IMAGINARY coming of Jesus at the end of the 5th seal,  Is it imagination or is it WORD? 

1 Thes:

4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
5:1  But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

I did not imagine that Paul wrote of the Day of the Lord just three verses after his classic rapture verse. That is the WORD, written for us to read and understand. 

5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

I did not have to imagine Paul wrote of wrath in his classic rapture passage. It is the WORD. 

Rev. 6:17  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

I did not have to imagine that at the 6th seal John declares that the DAY Of His wrath (the Day of the Lord) (SAME VERY DAY PAUL WAS TALKING ABOUT) Has started. 

It is therefore NOT imagination that the rapture comes between seals 5 and seals 6, it is the WORD. 

Just a bunch of gobbledygook that means nothing. Jesus comes at the 6th seal and you yet try to imagine that he comes at the end of the 5th seal with no scriptural support. 

Rev 6

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Here's some scriptural support that Jesus comes at the 6th seal. All you have at the end of the 5th seal is nothing but what you imagine.

On 8/21/2020 at 8:31 AM, iamlamad said:

pretend the the rider on the white horse in the 1st seal is Jesus  STRAWMAN   NOT JESUS, but THE CHURCH. JESUS is the one opening the seal

 

Sorry, I did not think it was possible for the whole church to ride on one horse. Pretty tough to do when they are already in heaven before the seals are even opened.

On 8/21/2020 at 8:31 AM, iamlamad said:

 

Rev. 5:6  And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7  And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

WHEN did Jesus get this book? WHEN? AT the same time He sent the Holy Spirit down. This is not imagination, this is WORD, correctly understood.

Really? Are you sure? Or are you wrong again? When did Jesus ascend to heaven. 40 days after He rose from the dead. When did the Holy Spirit come upon the church? 50 days after Passover. So are you rightly dividing? What are you working on, a pizza?

 

On 8/21/2020 at 8:31 AM, iamlamad said:

You imagine 2000 years in these verses. So WHO is doing the real imagining? WODB syndrome. 

According to what I just showed you, you are the one doing the imagining? I'll go with the Word, you can ride the imagination.

On 8/21/2020 at 8:31 AM, iamlamad said:

pretend that the daily sacrifice is taken away on the same day at the abomination of desolation is set up

Dan 12

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? This is about the end, what where is the START? It must be the time of trouble.

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. So the duration will be 3.5 years, but where to START COUNTING? So far, all Daniel knows is the time of great trouble: not a very precise starting point. 

Verse 2 should tell you (well, maybe not you) that there is a problem. The week is over before the time, times and half a time begins. Verse 2 should tell you that. Verse 1, the time of trouble, is the tribulation. Then Jesus comes for the rapture of the 12 tribes. Then there is time, times and half a time left AFTER THE WEEK IS OVER.

On 8/21/2020 at 8:31 AM, iamlamad said:

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Note, this is NOT a FROM / TO statement. There is no "to." It is an AND (in many translations: it is not a translation error).  Daniel is now going to learn where to START the count: It will start with the daily sacrifice removed OR when the abomination is set up. (Either one will work, for they happen at the same time.)

Again, BALONEY. Here, let me help you.

And from the time that the ice cream truck arrived and the Klondike bar hits you lips there shall be 12 minutes and 42 seconds. So do you receive your Klondike bar when the ice cream man arrives? CAUSE THERE IS NO TO IN THERE, IT'S AN AND.

Can't you just read what it says and accept it. Why go off imagining silly things that make no sense and are not supported by the word? Put away the sledge hammer.

You are totally clueless what happens 1290 days after the daily sacrifice is taken away. All you have to do is read what it says.

+

On 8/21/2020 at 8:31 AM, iamlamad said:

 

Benson Commentary: And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away — It is here declared, that the whole time that these calamities would last, should run somewhat beyond a time, times, and half a time, namely, thirty days beyond it; for a time, times, and a half signify only twelve hundred and sixty days, whereas here twelve hundred and ninety is mentioned as the term of duration; for which space of time, but not longer, the daily sacrifice should be taken away, or prohibited, and an idol be placed in the temple.

Barnes Notes:  There shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days - If this is to be taken literally, it would be three years and two hundred and ten days, reckoning the year at 360 days, and is thirty days more than the three years and a half referred to in Daniel 12:7

J.F.B. Commentary: thousand two hundred and ninety days—a month beyond the "time, times, and a half"

The commentaries all little help for they all seem to think these passages are referring to Antiochus! 

Just suppose we do make this a from / to statement. The abomination must still be what divides the week. But then the image "set up" would be after the entire 70th week has finished. In Revelation that would be somewhere in chapters 17 - 19 - or perhaps when Jesus returns as shown in Rev. 19. 

The daily sacrifice is taken away on day 1185. Then 1290 day later the abomination of desolation is set up. The great tribulation begins. That would be on day 2475 ( 1185+1290) There are 2520 days in a prophetic week. That means the great tribulation is 45 days long.

 

On 8/21/2020 at 8:31 AM, iamlamad said:

Note: NONE of the commentaries use the 1290 BACKWARDS as some try to do today, which would move the midpoint back 30 days, as in 1260 minus 30 making the first half of the week at 1230 days. 

You can poke fun all you want. At least I make SOME ATTEMPT to back up a theory with the Written word. 

 

You just continually use bad logic. Then after you draw a wrong conclusion, you need to imagine things so your time line will work. Why not just put things where God says they go. No imagination is necessary if you just read what it says and believe what it says.

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, The Light said:

Just a bunch of gobbledygook that means nothing. Jesus comes at the 6th seal and you yet try to imagine that he comes at the end of the 5th seal with no scriptural support. 

Rev 6

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Here's some scriptural support that Jesus comes at the 6th seal. All you have at the end of the 5th seal is nothing but what you imagine.

Water off a duck's back. Exactly as I said. Here is proof: what comes first?
4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
5:1  But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

The truth is, HIS COMING will CAUSE the Day of the Lord. The Day does not cause His coming. 

Water off a duck's back, exactly as I said. Your mind is made up: it matters NOTHING what is really written. We are done. As I said when we started:

"There is no reason for us to discuss anything: you already know it all. "

Edited August 23, 2020 by iamlamad

[The Light]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Water off a duck's back. Exactly as I said. Here is proof: what comes first?
4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
5:1  But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

The truth is, HIS COMING will CAUSE the Day of the Lord. The Day does not cause His coming. 

 

You act like you've solved something here. Talk about straw man. You have produced scripture that shows that there is a rapture before the Day of the Lord. Well of course there is. Did I need to post this verse?

Rev 6

¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The coming of Jesus at the 6th seal is the pre wrath rapture of the 12 tribes across the earth. If you understood that Rev 14 occurs during the seals, you might understand this. If you understood that the Church is already in heaven in Rev 5, you might understand this. If you understood it will be like the days of Noah where Noah was in the ark 7 days before the flood, you might understand that the Church will be in heaven celebrating for 7 years before the day of His wrath. If you understood that the when Jesus comes for the 12 tribes, just like the days of Lot, destruction will happen on that day. If you understood that the week is over, as can be proven in Daniel 12, before the wrath of God begins, you might understand. Until you stop with your imaginations you will never understand.

 

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Water off a duck's back, exactly as I said. Your mind is made up: it matters NOTHING what is really written. We are done. As I said when we started:

"There is no reason for us to discuss anything: you already know it all. "

What I know is that the scripture disagrees with what you are saying. It's not hard proving you wrong when you use imagination to fill in the timeline.