The Pre Tribulation Raptured Church

[The Light]

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Are you a gentile?
 

Are you a female?

[abcdef]

On 7/25/2020 at 7:13 PM, DeighAnn said:

Was there just one king of Babylon?  One world empire?   

The argument "it has happened so it won't or can't again" doesn't work, especially in the Word of God.  He USES "types" over and over. 

Watch out for that 'wisdom' of the world when in the Word of God,  Jesus foretold us all things. 
 

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

What do you think they were shortened to?  As they will no longer be the 7 years or 70th week, where does that leave us?

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.  

Revelation 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

 

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

Matthew 26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
 

These are the verses that help me to feel my understanding is correct.  No, they are not all in the context of what we are discussing but when praying upon them I do feel a connection between them

 

The Matt scriptures are mainly about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

---------------------

We might investigate whether or not a scripture may have a past meaning, with some future indicators.

But without some scriptural indications that it may be viewed that way, to say that it definitely does have future prophecy would be adding to the meaning of the passage.

To speculate is good, but after that, one must return to the basic, confirmed meaning of the verses.

-------------------

What would be your opinion of Eph 4:8, "captivity captive"?

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, The Light said:

15 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Are you a gentile?
 

Are you a female?

What does that have to do with the church? 

My question is in direct relation to the church AND your belief that the church is "gentile" only.  Hence my question. 

AND A problem.

WE can not know who we are.  SO IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYONE TO SAY THEY WILL BE PART OF A PRE TRIB RAP OF THE GENTILE CHURCH.   

 

As you know I believe the CHURCH/BODY OF CHRIST is made up of "CHRISTIANS".  

CHRISTIANS ARE NEITHER JEW NOR GENTILE NOR LOST SHEEP.  

They are those who

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
THIS IS THE CHURCH I BELIEVE IN


Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

THIS IS ISRAEL - IT IS NO LONGER OF "BLOODLINE" IT IS SPIRITUAL.  Not who you were but who you are made into. 

Believers in Christ no matter WHO THEY  were JEW, SHEEP, GENTILE = ISRAEL

This means the Word made flesh/Christ is then written to ALL CHRISTIANS.  THE WHOLE BOOK.  Christ came in the volume of the BOOK.  Want to know CHRIST?  Read and study it all CAUSE WHEN you do you will find 

WE ARE KEPT FROM THE HOUR BY FAITH 
IT IS NOT A PHYSICAL KEEPING FROM IT IS A SPIRITUAL KEEPING FROM
IT IS NOT A PHYSICAL TEMPTING IT IS A SPRITUAL TEMPTING.


WE SUFFER NO WRATH THROUGH OUR FAITH 
IT IS NOT A PHYSICAL KEEPING FROM IT IS A SPIRITUAL KEEPING FROM

IT IS A SPIRITUAL WAR.  

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
THE ARMOR OF GOD IS IN THE HEART AND MIND.  IT IS THE KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM THAT COME FROM THE WORD
 

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
IT IS NOT A PHYSICAL WAR, IT IS A SPIRITUAL WAR, A WAR ABOUT YOUR FAITH, HEART AND ETERNAL SOUL

Ephesians 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Ephesians 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
TRUTH IN GODS WORD, STAYING FAITHFUL AND RIGHTEOUS WHEN THOSE AROUND YOU ARE FALLING

Ephesians 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
KEEPING YOUR FAITH IN GOD.  KEEPING THE GOSPEL AND THE PEACE IT BRINGS CLOSE TO YOU

Ephesians 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
FAITH COMES FROM HEARING AND HEARING FROM THE WORD OF GOD.  AND IT IS THAT FAITH THAT CAN PUT DOWN ALL THE LIES THAT ARE THROWN YOUR WAY

Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
STAY FAITHFUL IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF SALVATION.  SALVATION COMES UPON DEATH OF THE FLESH BODY.  THE SWORD USED IS THE WORD OF GOD,  CHRIST JESUS, HIS TRUTH AND HIS TRUTH ONLY. 

Ephesians 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

 

DID you see any EARTHLY war?  DID you see any EARTHLY death?  

he is coming with signs and wonders and deception and wins with flatteries and performing miracles in the sight of men.  

The wars and stuff come before.  he is coming to heal all that ails this world.  The only problem is is ITS NOT REAL.  When you hear peace and safety, its a lie.  You are not at peace and you are not safe if you don't know what is REALLY HAPPENING.  





 

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

The Matt scriptures are mainly about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

---------------------

We might investigate whether or not a scripture may have a past meaning, with some future indicators.

But without some scriptural indications that it may be viewed that way, to say that it definitely does have future prophecy would be adding to the meaning of the passage.

To speculate is good, but after that, one must return to the basic, confirmed meaning of the verses.

-------------------

What would be your opinion of Eph 4:8, "captivity captive"?

My indicator for Matt 24

 Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 

I do agree that Matt 24 vs 1 and 2 are 70 AD

 

Matthew 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Matthew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

[The Light]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

What does that have to do with the church? 

My question is in direct relation to the church AND your belief that the church is "gentile" only.  Hence my question. 

AND A problem.

WE can not know who we are.  SO IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYONE TO SAY THEY WILL BE PART OF A PRE TRIB RAP OF THE GENTILE CHURCH.   

 

As you know I believe the CHURCH/BODY OF CHRIST is made up of "CHRISTIANS".  

CHRISTIANS ARE NEITHER JEW NOR GENTILE NOR LOST SHEEP.  

They are those who

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
THIS IS THE CHURCH I BELIEVE IN


Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

THIS IS ISRAEL - IT IS NO LONGER OF "BLOODLINE" IT IS SPIRITUAL.  Not who you were but who you are made into. 

Believers in Christ no matter WHO THEY  were JEW, SHEEP, GENTILE = ISRAEL

This means the Word made flesh/Christ is then written to ALL CHRISTIANS.  THE WHOLE BOOK.  Christ came in the volume of the BOOK.  Want to know CHRIST?  Read and study it all CAUSE WHEN you do you will find 

WE ARE KEPT FROM THE HOUR BY FAITH 
IT IS NOT A PHYSICAL KEEPING FROM IT IS A SPIRITUAL KEEPING FROM
IT IS NOT A PHYSICAL TEMPTING IT IS A SPRITUAL TEMPTING.


WE SUFFER NO WRATH THROUGH OUR FAITH 
IT IS NOT A PHYSICAL KEEPING FROM IT IS A SPIRITUAL KEEPING FROM

IT IS A SPIRITUAL WAR.  

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
THE ARMOR OF GOD IS IN THE HEART AND MIND.  IT IS THE KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM THAT COME FROM THE WORD
 

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
IT IS NOT A PHYSICAL WAR, IT IS A SPIRITUAL WAR, A WAR ABOUT YOUR FAITH, HEART AND ETERNAL SOUL

Ephesians 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Ephesians 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
TRUTH IN GODS WORD, STAYING FAITHFUL AND RIGHTEOUS WHEN THOSE AROUND YOU ARE FALLING

Ephesians 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
KEEPING YOUR FAITH IN GOD.  KEEPING THE GOSPEL AND THE PEACE IT BRINGS CLOSE TO YOU

Ephesians 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
FAITH COMES FROM HEARING AND HEARING FROM THE WORD OF GOD.  AND IT IS THAT FAITH THAT CAN PUT DOWN ALL THE LIES THAT ARE THROWN YOUR WAY

Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
STAY FAITHFUL IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF SALVATION.  SALVATION COMES UPON DEATH OF THE FLESH BODY.  THE SWORD USED IS THE WORD OF GOD,  CHRIST JESUS, HIS TRUTH AND HIS TRUTH ONLY. 

Ephesians 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

 

DID you see any EARTHLY war?  DID you see any EARTHLY death?  

he is coming with signs and wonders and deception and wins with flatteries and performing miracles in the sight of men.  

The wars and stuff come before.  he is coming to heal all that ails this world.  The only problem is is ITS NOT REAL.  When you hear peace and safety, its a lie.  You are not at peace and you are not safe if you don't know what is REALLY HAPPENING.  





 

Before I deal with your comment, I would like to know if you are female. See the highlighted scripture above.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Before I deal with your comment, I would like to know if you are female. See the highlighted scripture above.

I am not the one saying the church is made up of gentile only.  That is the subject we are discussing.  Is there a pre trib rap of a divided church.

Edited July 30, 2020 by DeighAnn
expand answer

[The Light]

49 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I am not the one saying the church is made up of gentile only.  That is the subject we are discussing.  Is there a pre trib rap of a divided church.

i don't recall saying that the Church was up of Gentiles ONLY. Can you clear up my memory and show me that post.

[DeighAnn]

On 7/26/2020 at 12:36 PM, The Light said:

Then the blindness will be removed from part of Israel as they see that the first harvest has occurred. It will be the harvest of the Gentiles. They will realized that they have missed the Messiah, who came for His Church.

Did Christ or Paul teach this doctrine?  Where do I find THEM teaching this?

On 7/26/2020 at 12:36 PM, The Light said:

²⁰ The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

You demand that God provide the timing of His coming when He tells you He will come in an hour that you think not. There are scriptures all over the Bible that tell us there will be more than one harvest and you look past them like they are not there.

Who exactly taught this doctrine?  and where can I find THEM teaching it?  You know I am very cautious about doctrines not taught by those God chose to teach them.  I always go back to 

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
AND this is one of my biggest concerns.  This theory you so teach makes it all so complex and confusing.  You have this rap by Christ, and this rap by angels, one beginning one at the end, one of the gentiles one of the Jews, a marriage at the beginning a marriage at the end.  Some  are tested  some are not.  

2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received OR ANOTHER GOSPEL, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

On 7/26/2020 at 12:36 PM, The Light said:

Fact - There will be more than one harvest. One will be like the days of Noah and one like the days of Lot.

Who tells us that one of these harvests is a harvest that happens before Satan is cast out?  Would that be Paul or Christ or SOMEONE else GOD SPOKE TO?

 

On 7/26/2020 at 12:36 PM, The Light said:

The gathering is from heaven and earth and it occurs at the 6th seal just prior to Gods wrath. The pretribulation rapture occurs prior to the time of Jacobs trouble. Part of the Jews will not have their blindness removed until the rapture of the Church happens. You can dance around clueless all you want, it won't change what the scriptures say.

 

On 7/26/2020 at 12:36 PM, The Light said:

No sir, there will not be a pretrib gathering. During the pretrib rapture, the Lord Himself will come. During the gathering he will send his angels. Completely separate events.

SO CHRIST COMES FOR THE PRE TRIB BUT DOESN'T "GATHER" BUT WHEN IT COMES TIME TO "GATHER" HE DOESN'T COME AND INSTEAD SENDS THE ANGELS.  


wow

On 7/26/2020 at 12:36 PM, The Light said:

⁹ There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

¹⁰ And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

You do realize that both Noah and Lot WERE KEPT FROM THE DESTRUCTION THAT CAME UPON THE WORLD don't you?  You do realize they STAYED on the earth, in their flesh bodies, and God watched over them while HIS WRATH was poured out upon everyone else, right?   

Does that in any way make you think, "God has got this, No worries, The hand of the Lord will be upon me no matter what comes my way"  no need to rap away, IT IS AS SAFE HERE AS IT IS ANY WHERE BECAUSE GOD IS IN CONTROL OF ALL. 

HOW CAN ANYONE

know whether THEY WERE OR WERE NOT THIS OR THAT???????????????? 

AND THEN HAVE THE ENTIRE END TIMES HAPPENINGS BE DESIGNATED  AS

"YOU WERE THIS BEFORE YOU WERE A CHRISTIAN SO THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW AND DO BECAUSE THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO YOU" 

AND

"YOU WERE THAT BEFORE YOU BECAME A CHRISTIAN SO THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO DO AND THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO YOU".

BUT NO ONE CAN TELL YOU WHO YOU ARE.

YOU MAY NOT FIND THIS AN IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION

BUT IT IS OBVIOUS THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU TO EXPLAIN IT IN A WAY IN WHICH OTHERS CAN UNDERSTAND IT.  AND I DON'T THINK THE TELLING THEM "YOU DON'T GET IT" IS HELPING OUT AT ALL. 

ALL WE WANT IS TO SEE IS WHO IS TEACHING IT AND WHERE CAN IT BE FOUND.  BECAUSE IF WE CAN'T READ IT FROM THE ONE TEACHING IT IN THE WORD OF GOD, WE ARE TOLD IT IS FALSE DOCTRINE.  

[R. Hartono]

Noah n Lot remained on earth yes.

Because the time of the Feast of the Lamb has not come yet.

Rev 19 speaks abt the marriage in heaven.

The great multitude are the saints raptured to heaven.

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by R. Hartono

[abcdef]

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

My indicator for Matt 24

 Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 

I do agree that Matt 24 vs 1 and 2 are 70 AD

 

Matthew 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Matthew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

 

Matt 24:4-14,

The persecutions and other events described in this passage were spoken to the 4 apostles present at the time, Mk 13 Peter, James, John, and Andrew.

Jesus told them what was going to happen to them before the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem.

The events described had to happen to them in order to be fulfilled, because this passage is about them being persecuted.

No one else can fulfill this prophecy because it was spoken directly to them and is about them, the 4 apostles present.