Proposition: There Is No Bible-Verse Argument For A Future Antichrist.

[JAG**]

9 hours ago, Don19 said:

 The man of sin refers to the POPE.   It is the papacy

that is antichrist. Currently, you can say that the papacy

has been consumed with the spirit of the Lord's mouth,

which is the gospel, which the papacy can no longer hide.

The only thing that still needs to happen is for Jesus to

return and destroy the pope!     Maranatha!

Don, you "made my day" my friend --- /Big Grin

Thank you for your input. 

JAG

PS

Barack Obama will be glad to hear that The Pope is the antichrist,

seeing as how he {Obama} has been identified as being the antichrist.

 

``

Edited July 30, 2020 by JAG**

[JAG**]

Seemingly there is no end or limit to the wild speculation about the
end times. The so called "antichrist" has been "identified" by the
"end times experts" numerous times in history --- and all they
said turned out to be WRONG WRONG WRONG --- but that did
not stop new "experts" from "identifying" fresh new "antichrists."

Some of the "antichrists" have been identified as being:
■ Various Roman Catholic Popes.
■ Hitler.
■ Mussolini
■ Mikhail Gorbachev
■ Barack Obama

■ Ronald Reagan 

■ Napoleon Bonaparte 

■ Pope Benedict 

■ Franklin Roosevelt 

If you google around you'll find a long list of "antichrists."

Its hilarious stuff to be sure!

JAG
 

Edited July 30, 2020 by JAG**

[Justin Adams]

43 minutes ago, SONshine said:

Satan is the only one who has already been judged and is going into the Lake of Fire.

Actually, Psalm 82 tells us of God in His Divine Council setting has already judged the sons of God that misled the nations (ye shall all die like men), so that is another 70 plus the 200 watchers in Tartarus. So there are most likely thousands if not millions of ex-holy ones that have been indicted. Not just Satan but all the other haSatans (deceivers).

[JAG**]

1 John 2:18-19

"Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that

the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come.

This is how we know it is the last hour. ¹⁹They went out from us,

but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to

us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed

that none of them belonged to us."___1 John 2:18-19

____________________________________________________________________________________

Note the particulars in 1 John 2:18-19

(1) "this is the last hour"

That compellingly refers to the time of the first century.
It CANNOT refer to the year 2020. That would be an absurd interpretation.
It CANNOT refer to any future time.
Just as it could not refer to the year 950 A.D.
Or to the year 1200 A.D.
Or to the year 1880 A.D.
Or to the year 2018 A.D.
It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.


(2) "even NOW many antichrists have come"
The "NOW" refers to the time of the first century.

It CANNOT refer to the year 2020. That would be an absurd interpretation.
It CANNOT refer to any future time.

Just as it could not refer to the year 450 A.D.

Or to the year 1100 A.D.

Or to the year 1680 A.D.

Or to the year 1760 A.D.

It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.

(3) "MANY antichrists have come."
"Many is plural. There were many antichrists that had ALREADY come in the
time of the first century.
It CANNOT refer to any future time.

It CANNOT refer to the year 2020. That would be an absurd interpretation.

Just as it could not refer to the year 450 A.D.

Or to the year 1000 A.D.

Or to the year 1480 A.D.

Or to the year 1260 A.D.

It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.

(4) "They went out from us. but they did not belong to us"
This compellingly is a reference to the first century, when John wrote 1 John.
It CANNOT refer to any future time.

It CANNOT refer to the year 2020. That would be an absurd interpretation.

Just as it could not refer to the year 450 A.D.

Or to the year 850 A.D.

Or to the year 1380 A.D.

Or to the year 1860 A.D.

It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.

 

JAG 

 

[JAG**]

 

The Bible mentions Antichrist in only the following 4 verses:

1 John 2:18
1John 2:22
1 John 4:3
2 John 7

There is not one {1} Bible Verse that connects John's antichrists with:

■ Daniel 7

■ 2 Thess 2

■ The Book of Revelation 

■ Paul's writings

■ Ezekiel

■ Or with any other parts of the Bible.

■ Any connections made is based on pure personal interpretative unproven assumptions.

■ The notion that there is to be some future "antichrist" that can be identified as the "beast"

or the "false prophet" or the "man of sin" or the "little horn" is pure fiction

without so much as one {1} clear Bible-Verse that proves the claim.

Its all pure personal interpretative speculation. 

________________________

 

 ■ By the way, it was John that wrote both John's epistles and the book of Revelation. Note that John DID NOT mention

his antichrists when he wrote Revelation which would have been a golden opportunity for him to do so. My view is that

John did not mention his antichrists because they were 1st Century Christian apostates as I have explained up-thread.

 

JAG

 

 

 .

` 
 

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by JAG**

[abcdef]

12 hours ago, JAG** said:

"Jag, I will agree with your statement on post mill., mostly."___abcdef

That's good enough for me. "Mostly" is good enough , , ,  /grin

_______

 

Agreed that Nero was an antichrist and not the only one.

Actually my view {and I believe the Postmill view} is that there is no 

one person that is THE antichrist. See Warfield's 3 points I posted in this 

thread on that if you are interested.

So my view is that Nero was not The antichrist and there is no such thing as THE antichrist.

Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry argues that Nero was the "man of sin" {man of lawlessness} of 2 Thess. 2

and that Nero was also the "beast" of Revelation 13 {Gentry views the heads as a collective

and does not separate   them -- if I recall what he said correctly.)

I will research what Gentry said on the "beast"   for you if you have further questions. Wait!  I  just

remembered that I posted Gentry's notes on the "beast" in this thread -- its back there not far

away and I think he interpreted  the heads as a collective  unit. Of course, that's just one view.

 

JAG

 

 

Jag,

May I suggest that Caesar Titus was the Antichrist who destroyed Jerusalem.

This is the one who was revealed at the 70 AD destruction.

The people had the book of Daniel which described events and entities surrounding the destruction of the city Dan. 9.

But what nation was the iron of Dan. 2, and the fourth beast of Dan. 7? 

It was revealed that Rome was the nation and Caesar was the ruler at that time.

--------

How is Caesar destroyed by the brightness of His coming? 

Caesar and Rome were not destroyed at the "presence" coming of Jesus at the destruction in 70 AD,

But understand that the beast nation, Rome and Caesar, change form over centuries.

The sea beast dies, the earth beast image continues, they are still the beast, but just a different form of the iron nation.

So just as John wrote about the 7/8 headed beast in Rev 17, the heads die one by one, but still the beast nation lives, under a different head.

So the answer is that the Caesar/Antichrist/ beast nation that destroyed the 70 AD Jerusalem is not the one that is destroyed by His coming,

it is  the latter/final form of the Caesar/Antichrist beast nation that is destroyed at His coming.

So Caesar and Rome are destroyed at His coming, just not the original beast, it is the image beast/Caesar that is destroyed. (Vatican)

 

 

[JAG**]

Proposition: There Is No Bible-Verse Argument For A Future Antichrist.

`
 To the thread:

I write the following just for the record.

I am an orthodox Bible believing born again Christian.

My wife and I attend a Bible believing Baptist-type Christian church
along with our grown children and our 6 grandchildren.

I believe the following with all my mind, heart, and soul:

I believe in the Holy Trinity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I believe in the Deity of the Lord Jesus. That He is fully God. (John 1: 1-5)

I believe in the Virgin Birth of the Lord Jesus.

I believe in the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus.

I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God and free from all error. (2 Timothy 3:14-17)

I believe in the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus.

I believe in a coming Judgment.

I believe that salvation is by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus' death
on the Cross where He died to pay for our sins. Ephesians 2:8

I believe in John 3:16 with all my heart.

I believe in all the orthodox doctrinal Protestant Creeds. That is, I am a Bible believing Protestant
in my faith and practice.

I am an orthodox Bible believing Postmillennialist.

I do NOT hold to a single weird or strange or unusual belief.

Postmillennialism is a mainstream orthodox Bible believing view

of the future of the human race and of the future of the Christian Church.

I can easily post a list of the names of dozens of Christian Postmillennial scholars
who believe the Bible is the word of God and 100% true --- but who DISAGREE with
Premillennialists on what the Holy Scriptures teach with regard to the end time passages.

There is nothing unorthodox  about Postmillennialism or Premillennialism or Amillennialism
or Dispensationalism. There are large segments within Bible Believing Christendom that holds

different views of the future of the human race and the future of the Christian Church.

There are 4 of them.

All 4 are fully orthodox and fully Christian.

(1) Postmillennialism
(2) Premillennialism
(3) Amillennialism
(4) Dispensationalism

_____________________


May the Lord bless and keep us.
May the Lord make His face to shine upon us.
May the Lord be gracious unto us.
May the Lord turn His face toward us.
May the Lord give us His protection and His peace.
(Based upon Numbers 6:24-27)

JAG
 

Edited July 30, 2020 by JAG**

[Alive]

This posts illustrates my point well---there are folks who sincerely believe that God Himself has shown them the truth and yet they disagree with one another.

All sincere brothers and sisters can do their level best to offer up the reasons for their respective views, based hopefully on scripture, and do so in love without indicting a fellow brother on some charge.

This all makes it plain, that either only one is correct and has it right, or none are correct and have it right.

This reality, ought to cause us all to walk through these corridors with a measure of humility and uncertainty.

Long ago--the Lord told me flat out--during a time of division when it was quite clear that there were brothers in error--in the midst of that storm He said to me two things. "Beware of the root of bitterness and do not build a case against your brethren"

That Rema word has served me well all these years. If you think about those individual words of counsel, you may see how inextricably linked they are and how it relates to the 'heart'.

[JAG**]

26 minutes ago, abcdef said:

Jag,

May I suggest that Caesar Titus was the Antichrist who destroyed Jerusalem.

This is the one who was revealed at the 70 AD destruction.

The people had the book of Daniel which described events and entities surrounding the destruction of the city Dan. 9.

But what nation was the iron of Dan. 2, and the fourth beast of Dan. 7? 

It was revealed that Rome was the nation and Caesar was the ruler at that time.

--------

How is Caesar destroyed by the brightness of His coming? 

Caesar and Rome were not destroyed at the "presence" coming of Jesus at the destruction in 70 AD,

But understand that the beast nation, Rome and Caesar, change form over centuries.

The sea beast dies, the earth beast image continues, they are still the beast, but just a different form of the iron nation.

So just as John wrote about the 7/8 headed beast in Rev 17, the heads die one by one, but still the beast nation lives, under a different head.

So the answer is that the Caesar/Antichrist/ beast nation that destroyed the 70 AD Jerusalem is not the one that is destroyed by His coming,

it is  the latter/final form of the Caesar/Antichrist beast nation that is destroyed at His coming.

So Caesar and Rome are destroyed at His coming, just not the original beast, it is the image beast/Caesar that is destroyed. (Vatican)

 

 

abcdef, thank you for your comments and for explaining -- much appreciated.

______

Based on your posts I think you might like the following:

 Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry's book titled

"Before Jerusalem Fell: Dating The Book Of Revelation"

Gentry presents a strong lengthy argument for dating the

book of Revelation as being written by John during the reign

of Nero Caesar   just a few years before  Jerusalem's destruction

at the hands of the Roman general Titus in A.D. 70.

________

 

Before Jerusalem Fell: Dating The Book Of Revelation

by Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry 

408 pages'

6 x 9 x 1+ inches.

amazon has it

JAG

Edited July 30, 2020 by JAG**

[Justin Adams]

Just for the record. I did a lot of reading about the Fall of Jerusalem and the days surrounding John's Revelation.

The church fathers do not agree and during that time there was fervor against anything Jewish (Israeli). The fact that the one 'church father' that is the 'go-to guy' for the dating of Revelation (Irenaeus) also said the Yeshua lived to 50+ years of age. Well that puts all of his 'evidence' in a questionable light. (Against Heresies is a mishmash of conflicts).

There was so much confusion at that time and so little was properly recorded that the 'word of mouth' affirmations were adopted as true even though there is little real evidence for them. Somewhat like the replacement of the Seventh day Sabbath for the first day of the week (SUN-day). It is all highly questionable and the 'proof texts' taken out of context only make it easier to sell books and preach strange doctrines.