Faithwilldo Posted August 18, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 168 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/20/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/31/1961 Share Posted August 18, 2020 52 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said: The wages of sin are death (Romans 6:23). It's up to you: Sin or don't sin. If you commit even just one sin, you must die. Christ is our near-kinsman redeemer. He purchased our sin debt and now we owe Him our death. He collects it by destroying our Old Man and then gives us new life as a child of God. This event happens at the time of the latter rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted August 18, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.26 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted August 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Faithwilldo said: If you commit even just one sin, you must die. Christ is our near-kinsman redeemer. He purchased our sin debt and now we owe Him our death. He collects it by destroying our Old Man and then gives us new life as a child of God. This event happens at the time of the latter rain. You need to understand the definition of the word “die” as used in this context. Here is another example: [17] "Yet your people say, `The way of the Lord is not just'; when it is their own way that is not just. [18] When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for it. [19] And when the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall live by it. [20] Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways." Ezekiel 33:17-20 RSV "Die" means suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted August 18, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.26 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted August 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, Faithwilldo said: If you commit even just one sin, you must die. Christ is our near-kinsman redeemer. He purchased our sin debt and now we owe Him our death. He collects it by destroying our Old Man and then gives us new life as a child of God. This event happens at the time of the latter rain. Just now, johnthebaptist said: You need to understand the definition of the word “die” as used in this context. Here is another example: [17] "Yet your people say, `The way of the Lord is not just'; when it is their own way that is not just. [18] When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for it. [19] And when the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall live by it. [20] Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways." Ezekiel 33:17-20 RSV "Die" means suffer. And "live" means the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted August 18, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 43 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.89 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Faithwilldo said: Also, we can't repent until God acts within us: Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. In the King James language "without repentance" simply means this. Romans 11:29 ESV 29for God's gifts and his call are "irrevocable." I'm also KJV preferred, but we need to fully understand the linguistics of the language or misinterpretation results if we lack comprehension of 15th century words, phrases, and terminologies. How long have you thought this was in reference to repentance for sins? I'm a bit surprised to see this. May I recommend a good study reference bible such as a Scofield* or Thompson*? It was tremendous assistance to me personally. Previously, I had quite a few difficulties understanding Elizabethan English. It's not an easy one for Americans especially. The British often feel we "bastardized" their language. WHAT IS TRUTH: King James Version: Elizabethan English? https://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/10/king... Oct 12, 2009 · Someone wrote: "The King James Version was produced in the Elizabethan period of Early Modern English, and so it uses forms of the verbs and pronouns that were characteristic of that period." When you read Shakespeare, you are reading Elizabethan English and you do not read the same language as the King James Version. The Old Scofield® Study Bible, KJV, Classic Edition ... https://www.amazon.com/Old-Scofield®-Study-Bible-Classic/dp/0195274601 Apr 08, 1999 · Only God knows how many souls were won and lives were changed in those revivals. His favorite study Bible was the Scofield. It was the Bible that was purchased for every high school and college graduate that attended the home church. Upon graduation, I was given a Scofield Study Bible. It was one of the Bible’s that I used when I began preaching. Scofield Study Bible - Christianbook.com https://www.christianbook.com/page/bibles/study-bibles/scofield-study-bible Scofield Reference Bible, edited by Cyrus I. Scofield, is the premiere Dispensationalism Study Bible. For over one hundred years, the Scofield Study Bible has been an indispensable aid, both as an introduction for the novice and as a companion for a lifetime of study. Or, perhaps a Thomson chain reference bible might be to your liking. Kirkbride Bible- Thompson® Chain-Reference® Bibles https://www.kirkbride.com The Thompson Chain-Reference Bible is printed and bound in the USA! Thompson Bibles are made for those who use their Bibles every day. A Thompson study Bible will help you in ways other Bibles can't. It's the unique Chain-Reference® System that allows you to follow any subject, person, place or idea, from the front of your Bible to the end. Thompson Chain-Reference Study Bible Notes - Wordsearch Bible https://wordsearchbible.lifeway.com/products/15077... A good chain-reference Bible such as Thompson's will help you find every parallel passage on the same topic or even the same word or phrase every time it is used. A large topical numbered section in the back, plus a selective concordance, maps and charts help round out this excellent reference work. Hank Hannegraph, The Bible Answer Man radio show. Edited August 18, 2020 by BeauJangles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithwilldo Posted August 18, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 168 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/20/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/31/1961 Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, BeauJangles said: In the King James language "without repentance" simply means this. Romans 11:29 ESV 29for God's gifts and his call are "irrevocable." I'm also KJV preferred, but we need to fully understand the linguistics of the language or misinterpretation results if we lack comprehension of 15th century words, phrases, and terminologies. How long have you thought this was in reference to repentance for sins? I'm a bit surprised to see this. May I recommend a good study reference bible such as a Scofield* or Thompson*? It was tremendous assistance to me personally. Previously, I had quite a few difficulties understanding Elizabethan English. It's not an easy one for Americans especially. The British often feel we "bastardized" their language. WHAT IS TRUTH: King James Version: Elizabethan English? https://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/10/king... Oct 12, 2009 · Someone wrote: "The King James Version was produced in the Elizabethan period of Early Modern English, and so it uses forms of the verbs and pronouns that were characteristic of that period." When you read Shakespeare, you are reading Elizabethan English and you do not read the same language as the King James Version. The Old Scofield® Study Bible, KJV, Classic Edition ... https://www.amazon.com/Old-Scofield®-Study-Bible-Classic/dp/0195274601 Apr 08, 1999 · Only God knows how many souls were won and lives were changed in those revivals. His favorite study Bible was the Scofield. It was the Bible that was purchased for every high school and college graduate that attended the home church. Upon graduation, I was given a Scofield Study Bible. It was one of the Bible’s that I used when I began preaching. Scofield Study Bible - Christianbook.com https://www.christianbook.com/page/bibles/study-bibles/scofield-study-bible Scofield Reference Bible, edited by Cyrus I. Scofield, is the premiere Dispensationalism Study Bible. For over one hundred years, the Scofield Study Bible has been an indispensable aid, both as an introduction for the novice and as a companion for a lifetime of study. Or, perhaps a Thomson chain reference bible might be to your liking. Kirkbride Bible- Thompson® Chain-Reference® Bibles https://www.kirkbride.com The Thompson Chain-Reference Bible is printed and bound in the USA! Thompson Bibles are made for those who use their Bibles every day. A Thompson study Bible will help you in ways other Bibles can't. It's the unique Chain-Reference® System that allows you to follow any subject, person, place or idea, from the front of your Bible to the end. Thompson Chain-Reference Study Bible Notes - Wordsearch Bible https://wordsearchbible.lifeway.com/products/15077... A good chain-reference Bible such as Thompson's will help you find every parallel passage on the same topic or even the same word or phrase every time it is used. A large topical numbered section in the back, plus a selective concordance, maps and charts help round out this excellent reference work. Hank Hannegraph, The Bible Answer Man radio show. I can't agree with your translation. We are called and given the necessary gifts before we repent. Also, we will lose the gifts when we "fall away" back to works of the flesh so the gifts are revocable. Paul on the Damascus Road is the example. He did not repent until after Christ gave him the early rain of the Spirit. The translations that say "irrevocable" are incorrect. The KJV has it right. The KJV has had over 1000 revisions to it since it was written. There are still more revisions that are necessary but this verse in not one of them. The Greek word "anioios" is one of the words that the KJV incorrectly translates. Part of the problem is the translator translates to match their preconceived beliefs. Edited August 19, 2020 by Faithwilldo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithwilldo Posted August 19, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 168 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/20/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/31/1961 Share Posted August 19, 2020 1 hour ago, johnthebaptist said: And "live" means the opposite. Die means to die spiritually and to die spiritually means to lose your relationship with God. Live means the opposite. This conversation is not going anywhere beneficial so it's time to end it. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted August 19, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,282 Content Per Day: 3.31 Reputation: 16,694 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2020 On 8/10/2020 at 5:58 PM, WowLookaDuck said: God is sovereign. Why is it wrong to blame him for things that happen in our lives? Job made that mistake. He justified himself instead of justifying the things God did. God IS sovereign which mean since He made us He has the right to do what He wants. We are to continue to believe He is just, righteous good and loving toward us. All things work together fo good to those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. Just because we can't understand it or see that is it good at this time doesn't mean it isn't so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptWalker Posted August 19, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 454 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 129 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/20/1970 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Whosoever WILL, God "causes" to be saved...?? Seems that a whole LOT of "God causes" have been left out of many scriptures for some reason?? Kind of sounds like hyper-Calvinism, but am only guessing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithwilldo Posted August 19, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 168 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/20/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/31/1961 Share Posted August 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, CaptWalker said: Whosoever WILL, God "causes" to be saved...?? Seems that a whole LOT of "God causes" have been left out of many scriptures for some reason?? Kind of sounds like hyper-Calvinism, but am only guessing? John 1:12–13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Eph 1:4-5 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. These three verses contradict your ability to "choose" Christ from a supposed Free Will. Here is why scripture is impossible for a carnally minded believer to understand: Isa 28: 10-12 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. Scripture is written in another language. It is not written in Hebrew and Greek as most believe. It is written in the Spiritual Language of Christ utilizing Hebrew and Greek. He did this so that no one can understand the knowledge of God unless He reveals it to them. He reveals His truth by healing a believer's spiritual vision and by giving them the faith & love for the truth to believe Him. This only occurs that the second coming of Christ (latter rain/Day of the Lord). He does it this way so that ONLY His Elect are saved in this age. Here is an example of Christ's spiritual language: John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: 1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: As you are probably aware, Christ is the Word of God. A witness of Him has been given to us through scripture. Scripture is not the Word of God – Jesus Christ is the Word of God. Both Old & New Testaments are a witness of Him as recorded by the prophets/saints. For most, it is easy to understand that the parables contain hidden spiritual messages. But since Christ is the Word of God, the many things that He said and did are spiritual messages to His Elect. Because Christ’s words are spirit, it necessitates that the reader have spiritual understanding. If we try to understand it literally, we cannot understand His message. Scripture cannot be understood literally - I can't stress that enough. I’ll demonstrate this principle with an easy example on "swords". Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword? Literally, that is what He is saying. So if we are to understand it literally, then that statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying. So is Christ mistaken or is His message something else? Since His “words are spirit”, His message must be spiritually understood. Christ’s spiritual message is quite different from what He is literally saying. In Matt 26:52, Christ is using a “symbol” or “type” to give us His spiritual message. Here Christ uses the symbol of a Sword. To understand what that symbol means, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword... Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword... From these examples, it is easy to understand that a Sword represents the Word of God. So Christ’s hidden spiritual point He is making in Mat 26:52 is that all who live (those being “born again”) by the Word of God, must perish (death of the carnal nature) by the Word of God. Water baptism is another symbol which sends the same spiritual message as Matt 26:52. When an individual is baptized in water, the immersion represents the death of our carnal nature (Old Man). The ascension out of the water represents our new birth in Christ in the Kingdom of Heaven. This great work of salvation is accomplished by the Word of God (Christ/Sword). Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted August 19, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 43 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.89 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted August 19, 2020 15 hours ago, Faithwilldo said: I can't agree with your translation. We are called and given the necessary gifts before we repent. Also, we will lose the gifts when we "fall away" back to works of the flesh so the gifts are revocable. Paul on the Damascus Road is the example. He did not repent until after Christ gave him the early rain of the Spirit. The translations that say "irrevocable" are incorrect. The KJV has it right. The KJV has had over 1000 revisions to it since it was written. There are still more revisions that are necessary but this verse in not one of them. The Greek word "anioios" is one of the words that the KJV incorrectly translates. Part of the problem is the translator translates to match their preconceived beliefs. I'm really sorry you're unteachable, brother. I'll just let you go on your way then. Take care. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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