JERUSALEM IS FALLING

[Biblican]

9 hours ago, abcdef said:

What is symbolic, and what is not. This is the center of the matter, along with the time lines.

But I believe that sifting through the details will clarify the issues.

Many of the numbers in the Rev are symbolic,

4, earth, four corners of the earth, the four winds, four direction, north, south, east, west. (The center is in Jerusalem.) Four parts of creation Rev 14:7. Four elements air, water, earth, and fire.

5, separation, division, 10 virgins- 5 wise and 5 foolish they were divided and separated.

6, the number of man, almost perfect, the creation, the animal spirit in man, the disaster and ends of the ways of men against God.

7, complete

Understanding the symbolism sheds light on a subject.

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To recognize exactly when the trumpets and vials are initiated, the results of the actions should be recognized.

For example, when the 6th vial is "poured out" the results of that action can be identified.

The result of the 6th vial is that the Euphrates dries up. Rev 16:12.

So what event, causes the river to dry up? What is the date that the 6th vial is poured out? I mean, if the Euphrates is already drying up, then doesn't that mean that the vial is already beginning to be poured out?

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But what if the waters of the Euphrates are representing the people o that area?

Isa 8:7-8. Isa 57:20. Jer 46:7-8. These verses show hat the "waters" are sometimes symbols of the people in a certain area, such as the Nile representing the people of Egypt.

So the Euphrates dries up, the people of that area lose their power that keeps the kings of the east from attacking restored to Israel Jerusalem.

When did the people of the Euphrates region begin to lose their power? What event happened, that caused them to be diminished?

9/11/01. When the towers fell, Bush attacked and destroyed the power in the Euphrates region, the people that kept Iran from attacking Jerusalem.

That event 9/11, was the sounding of the 6th trumpet AND the 6th vial.

That date, is the beginning of events that led to the strength of the people of the Euphrates region being dried up. Making way for Iran to attack Jerusalem and bringing about our present situation, where the winds of destruction are blowing across the Euphrates river towards Jerusalem. 

(You might ask yourself this question, Why attack Iraq, when they had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack? One answer is, to fulfill the prophecy of the Euphrates drying up, so that Iran can begin to blow the winds of destruction towards restored Jerusalem.)

 

You already believe that the present Euphrates River is not an obstacle to a modern military.

So if the river is not now any problem for the military, what was/is the obstacle that kept/is still keeping, Iran from attacking Jerusalem with full force?

The people of Iraq, in the Euphrates region, not the river itself.

 

Would that be a fulfillment of prophecy? Or just another asteroid?

You are missing the symbolism of the image, as it relates to the people of Israel.

 

I'm pretty sure that it will be much sooner than that. 

When Iran conquers Jerusalem, 3 1/2 days later, this planet ends in fire, the 7th vial/trumpet.

 

Because the differences in the details between the 70 AD destruction and the coming attack have been mixed up, they distort the images of the coming disaster.

 

The fact that there is a restored Jerusalem right now shows that the flesh of Israel is blessed because of the promises made to the fathers.

Again, we will have to agree to disagree.

[Alive]

20 hours ago, Biblican said:

If Preterism was a circus act it would be a contortionist.

What does this add to a rational discussion?

[Biblican]

2 hours ago, Alive said:

What does this add to a rational discussion?

The discussion was about Preterism. It was never rational to begin with.

[Alive]

11 hours ago, Biblican said:

The discussion was about Preterism. It was never rational to begin with.

Please discuss the topic rather than insulting a POV.

This topic is one of a great many on eschatology and reflects the view of many members--it certainly is not about 'preterism'. Any discussion on eschatology inevitably leads to individuals convinced of and very energetically expressing that their particular view was shown to them by God and interprets scripture accordingly. Several will do the same...so..where does that leave us?

Its impossible for all that have 'God's View', and yet differ, to be correct--but it is possible for each one to be wrong. This is perfect logic.

When searching scripture and using scripture to build our respective cases, we do well and this can lead to further understanding to all 'who are certain' of a POV.

If you say that one member's POV is not rational, what does this do? I will tell you.

1. It may transgress the TOS.

2. It may be a conversation stopper.

3. It may transgress what the scripture teaches us about what our behavior toward each other should be.

_______________________________

If you wish to start a OP discussing 'preterism', then do so--but do so in a manner that adheres to the TOS.

[Biblican]

12 hours ago, Alive said:

Please discuss the topic rather than insulting a POV.

This topic is one of a great many on eschatology and reflects the view of many members--it certainly is not about 'preterism'. Any discussion on eschatology inevitably leads to individuals convinced of and very energetically expressing that their particular view was shown to them by God and interprets scripture accordingly. Several will do the same...so..where does that leave us?

Its impossible for all that have 'God's View', and yet differ, to be correct--but it is possible for each one to be wrong. This is perfect logic.

When searching scripture and using scripture to build our respective cases, we do well and this can lead to further understanding to all 'who are certain' of a POV.

If you say that one member's POV is not rational, what does this do? I will tell you.

1. It may transgress the TOS.

2. It may be a conversation stopper.

3. It may transgress what the scripture teaches us about what our behavior toward each other should be.

_______________________________

If you wish to start a OP discussing 'preterism', then do so--but do so in a manner that adheres to the TOS.

I stated my position on this. I reject any doctrine that was added after the first century that contradicts what the apostles taught and preterism fits that category.

[Alive]

10 hours ago, Biblican said:

I stated my position on this. I reject any doctrine that was added after the first century that contradicts what the apostles taught and preterism fits that category.

I won't argue eschatology, but you may want to study up some more. You may find that your statement here can be revised--regarding what the apostles taught and what the early church taught and believed.

Before Jerusalem Fell--by Ken Gentry contains some very well reasoned material loaded with historical citing and more. It won't be conclusive, necessarily, but will provide food for thought and further study for an open mind.

[abcdef]

On 3/2/2021 at 1:59 AM, Jacob75 said:

Yes, you admit 20 years ago you said "Soon it will be evident to everyone."  The "Soon" description was in error.  Care to be responsible for idle words ... ?

To those who are eternally minded, 40 years or 500 years is a short time.

Is 15 years from today, a short time?

And what will a "short time" be when we have been with Jesus for a billion years, for 20 billion years?

And how long is 70 years in comparison to the 1000's of years that the souls have existed?

And how long have souls and creation waited and groaned for the revealing of Jesus in His glory? How long has the kingdom waited for the king to arrive, the dead to be raised, and the living kingdom to be taken home? over 1900 years now.

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You tell me when this present Jerusalem will fall to Iran and its gentile allies?

7 years? 6 months? 5 years? 20 years? Maybe we will not live to see it.

But it is here.

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Rev 11:7-13,

And the proof is, that it will happen, and is happening right now,

Exactly, as it says in the story of the 2 witnesses and the 7 trumpets.

When Jerusalem falls, after the battle of Armageddon, the people who hate Israel will celebrate and send gifts to each other.

Everyone will see the bodies lie in the streets.

Then after the 3 1/2 days, the resur/rapt will happen, and the kingdom will go with Jesus.

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One key to understanding these passages correctly is the identification of what is literal, what is a symbolic image, and what do the symbols represent?

When you realize that the kings of the east is Iran,

And that the stories center on Israel restored to Jerusalem,

And then realize that the war that ends with the battle of Armageddon is already underway,

Let us just say, that it is something that would cause a person to speak and try to explain the reasoning to others.

 

On 3/2/2021 at 1:59 AM, Jacob75 said:

(Hint: check Matt. 12:36.  Unless you ignore that part of the Bible.  Do you?)

Yes, I agree you are a preacher.

And what would Jesus say to me if I knew, and didn't say anything?

What if I just kept to myself, what was revealed to me, by reading the Bible and thinking about it?

I don't think that it would be the gospel spirit of love for the souls of people.

Looking for the signs, as people have done for 1000's of years, but suddenly seeing that the signs are now.

Israel restored to Jerusalem, the attack of Iran, and seeing that Jerusalem will soon fall.

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I have little money,

But I have riches, and have meat, and rich food for the kingdom.

I give it freely, without cost.

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Look, knowing exactly what the Revelation is saying will not save any souls after this planet is turned to fire and we are before the throne.

This is why it is all being explained and revealed before it happens, to save souls.

And it will really only make sense to people who are Christians and those who study the Bible.

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The gospel is salvation from the coming eternal judgment.

That has been preached from the beginning.

And if it has been preached from the beginning, do you believe that it will come?

And if it has now come, what has been preached from the beginning, maybe you will be skeptical, you will say that it is not in my lifetime, you will think that it has not been for 1000's of years and why should it be now?

I have had the same thoughts over and over again, constantly checking and debating the issues with others with an open mind, each time confirming or correcting differences in the understanding.

Although there  are now many signs, the greatest is that Jerusalem is restored to the military control of the people of Israel.

This event, is the sign of His coming for the resurrection.

[abcdef]

On 3/3/2021 at 9:26 PM, Biblican said:

Again, we will have to agree to disagree.

So then, lets try to continue thinking about the 6th vial. If you will continue.

How long is the time span between the pouring out of the 6th vial, and the battle of Armageddon?

There needs to be time enough for the beast to deceive the kings of the east who are across the Euphrates, time for the armies to assemble, time for the war of Armageddon to begin and continue, and then for the actual battle to take place. 

Many see this as taking place within a time span of a few months.

Could it be that the actual time span is over 20 years? 40 years?

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What comes after the 6th vial? the 7th vial?

The city that is destroyed is Jerusalem, but why Jerusalem?

You say in your book that it is Babylon, not Jerusalem.

But it says that Babylon came to remembrance, Rev 16:9, not that it is Babylon. If the city was Babylon, then Babylon would not have to be remembered, because it would be that actual city of Babylon.

But since the city is Jerusalem, it is compared to Babylon.

But this brings about an interesting question, 

If Israel wins the battle of Armageddon, why does God destroy Jerusalem? 

Because Israel doesn't win the war, the people of Israel are killed and Jerusalem falls to the kings of the east and their allies.

Understand, that the 7th vial is showing the end of this planet.

Edited March 6, 2021 by abcdef

[abcdef]

After Jesus comes for the kingdom at the resur/rapt, this planet is fire.

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The tribulation period was from 70 AD until 1967 when Israel was restored to Jerusalem.

People who believe that there will be a "second chance tribulation" after Jesus comes for the kingdom, and wait for the proof of the resurrection, will lose their opportunity for eternal life by waiting until it is too late.

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You want to know where we really are in the prophetic timeline?

Rev 20:9, Where Jerusalem is surrounded and fire comes down from heaven after the 2nd resurrection.

This shows the last events on planet earth before they "fly away" from His face at the last judgment.

People are waiting for the Rev to begin, when in fact, we are at the very end, the last few moments of life on this planet.

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So what is this fire from heaven, that is the last event shown on this planet?

It is the stone that destroys the statue in Dan. 2.

It is the 7th vial. Rev 16

It is the 7th trumpet. Rev 11

It is "His star". Matt 2:9

These all show the stone that will strike this planet after Jesus comes for the kingdom.

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Understand now that this is a major asteroid the orbits the solar system about every 2000 years.

Perhaps first seen as a possible "guide" for Abraham when he left Ur about 2000 years before Jesus was born. Similar to the wise men.

Then the wise men, about 2000 years later, were guided by a "star" that moved across the sky. This star was not a comet, as the description might have said "fire" instead of star. The description of the object as a star, implies that it is large enough to have a sustained illumination from  the sun. The fact that it moved and was right on time for the wise men to follow it, shows that this object is moving with the hand of God. It also implies possession, His star.

The stone which is cut from a mountain without human hands shows that this object was set in motion by the hand of God perhaps long before souls existed.

The object striking the statue is followed by the wheat/chaff judgment, then the new earth and is parallel to the Rev 20 passage.

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The 7th vial shows the stone striking the planet. The dividing of the city into 1/3's, is symbolic of the center of radiating power. That is, the asteroid that destroys the planet, is a direct hit on Jerusalem. (But none of God's people are there, they all were taken at the resur/rapt, just before the strike.)

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The 7th/last trumpet shows the same situation, the resurrection, and then the Judgment.

The stone will strike within the hour after Jesus comes for the kingdom, Rev 11.

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You believe that the great tribulation of Israel is future? Sorry, it is history, 70 AD-1967. There will be no trib period after Jesus comes for the Kingdom.

You believe that the mill period is future? Sorry but the mill period began at Pentecost and will soon end after Jesus comes for the kingdom. There is no mill period of the kingdom on earth after that.

Do you believe in more than 2 resurrections, 1 Cor 15:23-24? Sorry, but after Jesus comes for the kingdom at the 2nd resurrection there are no more 2nd chance resurrections. 2 resurrections, that's it.

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[iamlamad]

On 8/11/2020 at 2:30 PM, abcdef said:

 

3 1/2 DAYS AFTER JERUSALEM FALLS JESUS WILL COME FOR THE KINGDOM AND THIS PLANET WILL END IN FIRE.

 

The time of the 7th/last trumpet is here. All of the seals have been broken and 6 of the trumpets have blown.

Jerusalem is surrounded by the 200 mill man army, who are the Kings of the East (Iran) and the forces of Magog (the unbelieving gentile nations, Syria, Russia, Egypt, etc.).

Events taking place now around the globe are leading to the end of Israel on this planet.

Nothing can stop this from happening.

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Right now, the War of Armageddon has already begun. It will soon end in the final battle of Armageddon which Israel will lose.

Soon it will become evident to everyone that Jerusalem is going to fall.

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When Jerusalem falls this time, if the planet were allowed to continue after that, Israel would soon blend in to the gentile nations and cease to be a unique genetic race.

That is why Jesus ends life on this planet, because Israel is no more.

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No, you don't believe it, I know. You don't want think that this could be true. It can't be true, don't let it be true. You want proof.

Turn your eyes to the Middle East.

Look at the situation there.

Understand that because of events taking place now, the politics of those who have no love for Israel, Israel will soon stand alone and isolated from supporters.

Months possibly, a few years maybe.

Israel, half the size of the Netherlands, half the size of Belgium, a small country, facing the 200 mill army.

Soon everyone will watch in horror as these demon armies attack and are successful.

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Not long from now, we will be standing in front of the throne and this will all be gone, this planet will fly away.

One thing that will matter most is how many souls you brought into the Ark of Jesus, His covenant.

Time is running out. 

 

Now for reality: 

No part of the 70th week (the trumpet judgments and then the vial judgments) has happened. The entire week is FUTURE. 

Before the 70th week can begin (with the opening of the book sealed with 7 seals) all seven seals must first be opened.

The 7th seal cannot be opened to begin the trumpet judgments and God's wrath poured out until first the 6th seal is opened.

The 6th seal is the announcement of the imminent start of judgment: the trumpet judgments. 

The church is still waiting on that final church age martyr of the 5th seal. That final martyr will not come until the rapture comes to end the church age.

Folks, this is reality. I really don't know what the post above is.