JERUSALEM IS FALLING

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, abcdef said:

Like a lamp in the living room? On/off, on off? And where will He go when His glory goes on again? Back to heaven? Back and forth from planet earth to heaven?

Sit down and really think about what you are saying here. We are talking about the presence of God and the unspeakable power of His glory.

I believe that once it is revealed to us at the resur/rapt, that we will eternally be in His glory with Him. If Jesus withdraws His glory so that living people can see Him, then He would be also hiding His glory from His saints and His throne. 

 

Ex 33:17-23, Read it, think about it.

Thinking...Ex 33 was before Jesus took on human flesh. He did not have to cover those with his hand that saw Him after His resurrection. Without a doubt they saw His face. 
Neither does it say anywhere they died or were blinded as Paul was. 

Conclusion? It seems God can "control" His glory. 

Yes, agree, WE (that is those born again ones who will be caught up with Him and escorted to heaven. "So shall we always be with the Lord." But those on the earth will NOT be with Him because He will return back to heaven to await the marriage and supper and then His trip down to Armageddon. 

If Jesus withdraws His glory so that living people can see Him, then He would be also hiding His glory from His saints and His throne.  You mean, like when He appeared to the many after His resurrection?

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, abcdef said:

1. The Revelation is not one continual time line.

There is a break in the time line between ch 19 and 20, so that the time line begins again.

...

Well, lets talk about it. 

Yes, but how much time? It will not be a long period of time; perhaps weeks or months. It is not time beginning again. It is only a break in the timeline. Chapter 19 ends with Armageddon. Chapter 20 begins with His kingdom set up and ongoing. How long will it take? John does not tell us.

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, abcdef said:

 The 1000 years is not literal, but symbolic of the church/kingdom we are in right now. We are at the very end where Jerusalem is surrounded.

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2. There are only 2 resurrections, 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24 and John 5:25-29.

The first one was Jesus and the OT saints. They are seen in heaven with Jesus and John when John was taken through the door in the 85-96 AD ish time period. They are the ones that rule with Jesus from heaven. ( John the Baptist, beheaded) No where in Rev 20 does it say that the saints rule from planet earth.

The second resurrection is at His coming for the kingdom at the resur/rapt.

That is it! 2 only! Not 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7 as some teach. 

Well, lets talk about it. 

The 1000 years is not literal. WHO SAID? YOU? And we are to believe you when there is not one hint that it is NOT literal in the text? Perhaps you should count how many times John mentioned the 1000 years - just as if it were literal. 

There are only 2 resurrections  Again, who said? There are two NAMED (sort of) in Revelation: one for the saved, and one for the damned. 

Can we count them up?

1. Jesus

2. Those elders that Jesus rose up when HE rose.

3. The resurrection of the dead in Christ.

4. The resurrection of those beheaded during the days of GT PLUS the Old Testament saints PLUS the Two Witnesses: all this at the same resurrection: at the great earthquake at the 7th vial.

This does not count the 144,000 who are called up by not resurrected from the dead.

5. The resurrection of the damned over 1000 years later.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

The incorrect interpretations have root in the prevailing misguided Ezekiel 37 interpretation.

-------

Isaiah 26:19 "Israel's dead men shall rise, together with my dead body shall they arise" A prophecy about actual resurrection is what the Pharisees believed this passage was about. Acts 23:8

Isaiah immediately goes on to describe the Lord slaying two beasts.
Therefore Isaiah 26:19 through 27:1 directly parallels Revelation 19:7-21.

Jeremiah 30:9 "And David whom I will raise up unto them"
Again, a prophecy about the resurrection of David, that is how someone like Paul
would have understood the passage. Acts 23:8, 26:6-8.
The resurrection of Christ made Paul to believe in actual resurrection.
 

And yet they want us to believe that Ezekiel 37:22-24 came to pass in 1948 through 1967, and that Ezekiel 37:1-14 is not a prophecy concerning actual resurrection.

However, Ezekiel 37 declares" 

"Come from the four winds Oh breath of life and breath upon these slain,
that they may live, and they stood upon their feet an exceedingly great army"

"I will open up your graves and bring you up out of your graves,
and bring you into the land of Israel"

"Neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all"

"And David my servant shall be a king among them, and they all shall have one shepherd"
 

These things came to pass in 1948?

Israel has not been divided since 1967?

To believe that Ezekiel 37:22 applies to what happened in 1967
we must call war peace and division unity.

There are literal idols all over Israel, Catholic idols and Islamic idols.
Therefore neither can Ezekiel 37:23 apply to what happened in 1948-67.

To accept that Ezekiel 37 is not about resurrection
we must believe that Jeremiah 30:9 is not about resurrection,
and also that Isaiah 26:19 is not about resurrection,
and also that Psalms 16 is not about resurrection.

If Psalms 16 is about David's resurrection then surely Jeremiah 30:9 is also.
And dear ones, the Bible tells us that Psalms 16 is about resurrection. [Acts 13:35]
If we read it carefully we see that David sings of his own resurrection,
and of the resurrection of the Messiah.
"you will not leave my soul in Sheol,
neither will you allow your Holy One to even see decay" Psalm 16:10

Dear ones, no resurrections happened in 1948.

In the context of Jeremiah 30:8, Psalm 16:10 and Isaiah 26:19,
and the actual resurrection of Lazarus and Christ.
From just that scripture context, and Ezekiel 37:1-14, we can conclude
that Ezekiel 37:24 is talking about an actual resurrected David.

From 1948 to 1967 "Israel" became three distinct nations, not one, three;
Israel, the west bank, and the Gaza strip, each with their own 'kings'.

From 1948 to 1967 half of Jerusalem was literally desolate and uninhabited.

What happened during that time was the instillation of military occupation
that continues to this day, literal military troops on the streets and on roof tops,
and literal military checkpoints all over the place.

An increasingly divided up land is the result, not a unified place of peace,
but a place of war, and yet they cry out "Peace peace" when there is no peace,
that is the "state" of "Israel" right now as we speak.

So dear ones, definitely not, Ezekiel 37:22-24 has nothing at all to do with what happened in 1948-1967.

 

Ezekiel 37 is clearly the great prophecy of the resurrections to come.
"From the four winds" Ezekiel 37:9-10 just as Christ gives us more details about:
"he shall send forth His angels with the great sound of a trumpet,
and they shall gather together His chosen ones, from the four winds"
Matthew 24:31 Clearly "from the four winds" in Matthew is a reference to actual resurrection, as it is also in Ezekiel 37:9-10.

 

Isaiah 26:19 == Resurrections
Isaiah 27:1-2 == The Lord slays two beasts on that day.
 

Ezekiel 37:1-14 == Resurrections
Ezekiel 37:15-24 == 1000 year reign of the Messiah
Ezekiel 38 and 39 == Gog and Magog.

It's rather clearly what the text says, to believe otherwise
is to believe words outside of the Bible.
Revelation backs up and gives, revelation, to Ezekiel's prophecy.

Revelation 20:4-5 == Resurrections
Revelation 20:5-7 == 1000 year reign of the Messiah
Revelation 20:7-10 == Gog and Magog.
 

These things are clear from the text themselves,
when we let just scripture interpret scripture,
it makes more sense and is more clear.

Anyone taking Ezekiel 38 and 39 and trying to apply it to our times,
does so out of a misguided belief that Ezekiel 37:22-24 happened already.

Clearly Gog and Magog happens after the 1000 years,
clearly the 1000 years begin when the beast and false prophet are slain:
Revelation 19:20-21, 20:1-3, 7-10.

David will be literally resurrected,
as with Isaiah and all the righteous of Israel, all the dead in Christ,
they will rise first, then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds with them to meet the Lord in the air.
The Lord will then execute wrath upon the wounded/healed person and false prophet and all the armies gathered to fight against us, His exceedingly great army. [Jude 1:14-15, Psalm 58:10]
This event is known as the marriage supper of the Lamb; Revelation 19:7-14.
And then we shall reign with Christ for 1000 years from a Israel and Jerusalem truly restored to peace.
.

[Eternally Gratefull]

On 3/22/2021 at 7:54 PM, abcdef said:

The trib did start after the AoD.

The trib was when Jerusalem fell in 70 AD and the time after that, until 1967.

70 AD-1967.

 

Do you have a scripture to support this?

 

The trib period, 70 AD -1967, did include WW 1 & 2. If the time had not been shortened, no flesh of the elect Israel would have been saved, (Matt 24:22).The time of the trib centers on the people of Israel among the gentile nations, not the planet.

[/quote]

There was no AOD in 70 ad. Jesus in Matt 24 says it is AFTER this that the great trib starts

70 AD fulfills the part that the people of the prince who will come will DESTROY the city and sanctuary. and it will lie desolate until a time determined.

 

 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

Another piece of the puzzle that has been taken out in all modern translations is what Daniel was told.

But due to the full context of scripture we can still arrive at the correct translation.
 

I Daniel understood by the books, the number of years, 
which came as the word of the Lord by the prophet Jeremiah,
how that the Lord would accomplish 70 years in the desolations
of Jerusalem.  Daniel 9:2

Being now 70 years older in captivity; 2 Chronicles 36:6-21.

Daniel then cries out to the Lord to please not destroy Jerusalem:
Daniel 9:3 - 19

But the angel Gabriel comes and gives Daniel skill in understanding.
And tells Daniel straight out:

Seventy captivities (that is, seventy sets of 70 year captivities)
are determined upon thy people, and upon thy holy city,
to finish the transgression [Romans 11:30-31],
and to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and the prophecy,
and to anoint the Holy of Holies (as king)

Daniel 9:24

The whole verse makes more sense when see it's talking about 70 captivities.

"And after 32 captivities shall the Messiah suffer the death penalty,
but not for himself"  Daniel 9:26  Way more sense.

It's a total of 4,900 years, but we are not told if the captivities happen
back to back, and due to Revelation 10 we can conclude that there is some delay.

1948-1967 was the beginning of another captivity,
half of Jerusalem was literally desolate and uninhabited from 1948 to 1967.
So we are in the time period now around the end of a captivity, we should expect some sort of war around Jerusalem soon, and another world war. Perhaps this has been the last captivity, I certainly hope so.
 

 

[abcdef]

On 3/23/2021 at 5:21 PM, iamlamad said:

Thinking...Ex 33 was before Jesus took on human flesh. He did not have to cover those with his hand that saw Him after His resurrection. Without a doubt they saw His face. 
Neither does it say anywhere they died or were blinded as Paul was. 

Conclusion? It seems God can "control" His glory. 

Ex 33:20, "And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." 

This is the face that we want to see, the face of God/Jesus in His heavenly eternal glory.

When do we see this face, that no man can look upon and live?

-

Matt 25:31-32, "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the Holy angels with him, then shall he sit on  the throne of his glory: (32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: ...".

Will we be seeing the face of the God of Mt Sinai then?

 

On 3/23/2021 at 5:21 PM, iamlamad said:

Yes, agree, WE (that is those born again ones who will be caught up with Him and escorted to heaven. "So shall we always be with the Lord." But those on the earth will NOT be with Him because He will return back to heaven to await the marriage and supper and then His trip down to Armageddon.

After Jesus comes for the kingdom at the second resurrection (7th/last trumpet), this planet is ended in fire.

There will be no second chances for salvation after the Pentecost kingdom of Israel is taken at the resur/rapt.

(There are only 2 resurrections. 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24. John 5:25-29, 25,28.

1st resurrection, Jesus and the OT saints,

2nd resurrection/rapture, all remaining souls, saved and unsaved.)

 

On 3/23/2021 at 5:21 PM, iamlamad said:

If Jesus withdraws His glory so that living people can see Him, then He would be also hiding His glory from His saints and His throne.  You mean, like when He appeared to the many after His resurrection?

No, I mean seeing the face of Jesus/God in His heavenly eternal glory.

[abcdef]

On 3/23/2021 at 5:25 PM, iamlamad said:

Yes, but how much time? It will not be a long period of time; perhaps weeks or months. It is not time beginning again. It is only a break in the timeline.

The Rev 15-16, time line of the 7 vials ends at the 7th vial, when the planet is completely destroyed. 

The battle of Armageddon is over by the time of the 7th vial. Israel loses the battle and Jerusalem falls to the kings of the east (Iran). This is why the 7th vial is poured out, because Israel is destroyed.

After the 7th vial, there is no planet left except for fire.

-

The Rev 19 vision is showing the defeat of the of the sea beast, not the earth beast. The earth beast is shown in the remnant of the sea beast which continues to fight against Jesus and the Pentecost kingdom of Israel Rev 19:21.

There is nothing in Rev 19 that confirms this as the battle of Armageddon.

 

On 3/23/2021 at 5:25 PM, iamlamad said:

Chapter 19 ends with Armageddon.

 

On 3/23/2021 at 5:25 PM, iamlamad said:

Chapter 20 begins with His kingdom set up and ongoing. How long will it take? John does not tell us.

Rev 20, The kingdom of Israel on planet earth began on Pentecost, after the first resurrection of Jesus and the OT saints, and has been here ever since.

The kingdom ends on this planet at the 2nd resurrection, which will happen after Jerusalem is surrounded and before the fire from heaven, coming soon.

We are at the end of the mill/Pentecost kingdom covenant on planet earth period now.

Jerusalem is surrounded, the fire from heaven is coming.

[abcdef]

On 3/23/2021 at 5:32 PM, iamlamad said:

The 1000 years is not literal. WHO SAID? YOU? And we are to believe you when there is not one hint that it is NOT literal in the text?

Rev 20:1, Is the key that is spoken of, a literal key? Like a key for a literal lock?

Is the chain that is spoken of, a literal chain? Iron or something?

V 2, Is the dragon, a literal dragon, like a dinosaur?

V 3, Is the abyss a literal hole in the ground? Is the seal, a literal seal?

Etc, etc.

These are, symbolic images, of literal entities and events.

The abyss is the place of the dead. That is, it is a place that is separated from God by a great distance. The entity is still "alive/conscious/aware and interacting", but on a much more limited basis than at the previous distance from God's throne.

The dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns (Rev 12:3) is Satan, the spirit of Satan in people, the people of a nation that hates the people of Israel and wants to destroy them, Rome.

It is Rome that rises up from the abyss (1929), and deceives the gentile nations into attacking Jerusalem. (Happening now)

There is no nation "Gog/Magog" today. They are all different nations now, with different names and borders. So if it were literal of the previous Magog/Gog nation, then that ancient nation with its borders would have to be recreated.

But it seems the name "Magog" is a symbolic image of an unnamed nation or group of nations in future time, or maybe our time.

 

On 3/23/2021 at 5:32 PM, iamlamad said:

Perhaps you should count how many times John mentioned the 1000 years - just as if it were literal. 

The mill period, is the time of the Pentecost/new covenant kingdom/church on planet earth. Not some garden of Eden type place, that is not shown and is an assumption, going beyond what is said in the Rev 20 context.

The 1000 years represent a complete time, not necessarily literal.

The number is symbolic, just as many of the others in Rev and the rest of the Bible.

 

On 3/23/2021 at 5:32 PM, iamlamad said:

 

There are only 2 resurrections  Again, who said?

Paul and John said that there are only 2 resurrections. I gave you the scriptures.

Paul, 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24.

John 5:25-29, 25, 28.

 

On 3/23/2021 at 5:32 PM, iamlamad said:

There are two NAMED (sort of) in Revelation: one for the saved, and one for the damned. 

Can we count them up?

1. Jesus

2. Those elders that Jesus rose up when HE rose.

3. The resurrection of the dead in Christ.

4. The resurrection of those beheaded during the days of GT PLUS the Old Testament saints PLUS the Two Witnesses: all this at the same resurrection: at the great earthquake at the 7th vial.

This does not count the 144,000 who are called up by not resurrected from the dead.

5. The resurrection of the damned over 1000 years later.

John 5: 25-29, Jesus only speaks twice.

The first time He speaks, only the ones who hear His voice are resurrected v 25.

The second time He speaks both good and evil rise v 29.

2 resurrections.

--

 

First resurrection- The 144000, the multitude that no man can count (MTNMCC), the elders, the 5th seal martyrs, the beheaded Rev 20:4 (John the Baptist), are all from the first resurrection when Jesus rose in 33 AD. 

 

Second resurrection- Those who are "dead in Christ" in the Pentecost kingdom, those who are alive on planet earth in the kingdom, and then the rest of the dead.

--

Those who are living in the kingdom at the time of the resur/rapt will be instantly be with Jesus. 

Those unbelievers who remain on planet earth, will die within a short time, and then be brought to judgment. According to Rev 11:13, it will be within the same hour, that the stone will strike, the fire from heaven.

So the amount of time that the 2nd resurrection takes, between the first who are dead in Christ and the last of the unbelievers to be killed, is a matter of hours, not a 1000 years between good and evil resurrections.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

The Rev 15-16, time line of the 7 vials ends at the 7th vial, when the planet is completely destroyed. 

The battle of Armageddon is over by the time of the 7th vial. Israel loses the battle and Jerusalem falls to the kings of the east (Iran). This is why the 7th vial is poured out, because Israel is destroyed.

After the 7th vial, there is no planet left except for fire.

-

The Rev 19 vision is showing the defeat of the of the sea beast, not the earth beast. The earth beast is shown in the remnant of the sea beast which continues to fight against Jesus and the Pentecost kingdom of Israel Rev 19:21.

There is nothing in Rev 19 that confirms this as the battle of Armageddon.

 

 

Rev 20, The kingdom of Israel on planet earth began on Pentecost, after the first resurrection of Jesus and the OT saints, and has been here ever since.

The kingdom ends on this planet at the 2nd resurrection, which will happen after Jerusalem is surrounded and before the fire from heaven, coming soon.

We are at the end of the mill/Pentecost kingdom covenant on planet earth period now.

Jerusalem is surrounded, the fire from heaven is coming.

The Rev 15-16, time line of the 7 vials ends at the 7th vial, when the planet is completely destroyed. 

The battle of Armageddon is over by the time of the 7th vial.  How can you even imagine that when John shows us the marriage supper happening after the 7th vial but before Jesus returns? Sorry, my friend, but there is TIME after the 7th vial, and before Armageddon. What you imagine in "completely destroyed" is simply not true. Yes, there will be severe destruction, but not complete destruction. Especially not in the valley of Megiddo where Satan will gather the armies of the world. 

Why is it people insist on rearranging Revelation? Do they imagine God mixed it up on purpose to make things difficult to understand?

 

^16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

²⁰ And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

²¹ And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

It sounds dreadful. But not all die.

 

 

^18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

¹⁰ Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

¹¹ And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

Notice that the "kings of the earth" live through this. Notice that the merchants of the earth are still alive. 

 

^19:1And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

² For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

Notice that at this time, the first verses of chapter 19, the judgment shown at the 7th vial is over. But Jesus has not yet ascended. He will ascend after the marriage and supper.

After the 7th vial, there is no planet left except for fire. I am sorry, but I have to say this is only imagination. It does not follow the text.

The Rev 19 vision is showing the defeat of the of the sea beast, not the earth beast. The earth beast is shown in the remnant of the sea beast which continues to fight against Jesus and the Pentecost kingdom of Israel Rev 19:21.  I am sorry, but I have to say this is only imagination too. Notice this verse:  

²⁰ And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

There is nothing in Rev 19 that confirms this as the battle of Armageddon. I am sorry This is true, but we KNOW it is the battle of Armageddon from this verse.
 

^16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

It seems we disagree again. : -(((