Tongues?

[Duck]

5 hours ago, Paul James said:

The Holy Spirit has said clearly that when a person speaks in tongues they are speaking to God, mysteries in the Spirit, and are giving their thanks to Him well.  also   Also He clearly instructs that the speaking of tongues should not be forbidden, and the Holy Spirit's preference is that everyone speak in tongues.   He also says that various types of tongues are a definite part of the nine gifts of the Spirit designed to strengthen and build up the body of Christ.  He also says that these things are written for all Christian believers everywhere, who are called to be holy people in Christ.   

Because I am called to be a holy believer called by Christ, then the Holy Spirit's instructions concerning tongues is definitely for me, and to say anything different would make me disobedient to the Holy Spirit, and inferring that He is not telling the truth about these things.

I am not saying these things.  The Holy Spirit is.

 

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, Duck said:

The Holy Spirit has said clearly that when a person speaks in tongues they are speaking to God, mysteries in the Spirit, and are giving their thanks to Him well.

The transitional nature of the beginning of The Church was of special needs as they only had the OT to refer to and the NT of Grace not Law was certainly new to them 

Eph 3:2-5

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to youward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
KJV
clearly with the NT being formed there was need for The Holy Spirit to work as He did... but the intent of God is also revealed that when His Word was completed it would be the only standard whereby we His Children would place our trust:
 

John 17:6-20

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This was OT here

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
the foundation of God's purpose

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. the absolute to growth of individuals

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.  repeated again in case you missed it

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
KJV             This is the formation of the NT and incapsulates God's intentions for us that would be!

and just in case you missed that God's Word was the only source from which God intended for s/Spiritual everything Paul in Spirit wrote
 

2 Tim 3:15-4:4

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
                                                                  God's Word and nothing else... completely furnished

4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
KJV
 

2 hours ago, Duck said:

Also He clearly instructs that the speaking of tongues should not be forbidden, and the Holy Spirit's preference is that everyone speak in tongues

I disagree as the clear instruction of tongues is they are considered thus

1 Cor 14:19

19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
KJV
 

1 Cor 13:8

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
KJV

 

2 hours ago, Duck said:

Because I am called to be a holy believer called by Christ, then the Holy Spirit's instructions concerning tongues is definitely for me, and to say anything different would make me disobedient to the Holy Spirit, and inferring that He is not telling the truth about these things.

I am not saying these things.  The Holy Spirit is.

I prefer chapter and verse for my growth ... this prevents me from trusting myself, others, or the world I am in...

[Waggles]

8 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

1 Cor 13:8

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
KJV

OK each to their own

you do things your way, but as for me I will walk in the power of the Holy Spirit. 

[Alive]

10 hours ago, Waggles said:

No one gets it because you are writing rubbish.

Please refrain from personal insult and stick strictly to the topic.

[Duck]

2 hours ago, enoob57 said:

The transitional nature of the beginning of The Church was of special needs as they only had the OT to refer to and the NT of Grace not Law was certainly new to them 

Eph 3:2-5

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to youward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
KJV
clearly with the NT being formed there was need for The Holy Spirit to work as He did... but the intent of God is also revealed that when His Word was completed it would be the only standard whereby we His Children would place our trust:
 

John 17:6-20

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This was OT here

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
the foundation of God's purpose

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. the absolute to growth of individuals

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.  repeated again in case you missed it

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
KJV             This is the formation of the NT and incapsulates God's intentions for us that would be!

and just in case you missed that God's Word was the only source from which God intended for s/Spiritual everything Paul in Spirit wrote
 

2 Tim 3:15-4:4

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
                                                                  God's Word and nothing else... completely furnished

4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
KJV
 

I disagree as the clear instruction of tongues is they are considered thus

1 Cor 14:19

19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
KJV
 

1 Cor 13:8

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
KJV

 

I prefer chapter and verse for my growth ... this prevents me from trusting myself, others, or the world I am in...

I didn’t quote those points. It was Paul James. Don’t know what happened there.  I don’t agree with those points either. 

[David1701]

17 hours ago, enoob57 said:

no one seems to understand what I am saying is clearly self evident fact... if tongues is not understood verbally then it bypasses the Written Word of God to determine what spirit it is from... it is a no brainer and cannot be denied. 

If you have the Holy Spirit living inside you (and every genuine Christian does), then he can give you discernment, can he not?

[Paul James]

5 hours ago, enoob57 said:

The transitional nature of the beginning of The Church was of special needs as they only had the OT to refer to and the NT of Grace not Law was certainly new to them 

Eph 3:2-5

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to youward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
KJV
clearly with the NT being formed there was need for The Holy Spirit to work as He did... but the intent of God is also revealed that when His Word was completed it would be the only standard whereby we His Children would place our trust:
 

John 17:6-20

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This was OT here

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
the foundation of God's purpose

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. the absolute to growth of individuals

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.  repeated again in case you missed it

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
KJV             This is the formation of the NT and incapsulates God's intentions for us that would be!

and just in case you missed that God's Word was the only source from which God intended for s/Spiritual everything Paul in Spirit wrote
 

2 Tim 3:15-4:4

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
                                                                  God's Word and nothing else... completely furnished

4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
KJV
 

I disagree as the clear instruction of tongues is they are considered thus

1 Cor 14:19

19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
KJV
 

1 Cor 13:8

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
KJV

 

I prefer chapter and verse for my growth ... this prevents me from trusting myself, others, or the world I am in...

The Holy Spirit has never said that the supernatural gifts of the Spirit were ever meant to be temporary, or that they were to be replaced by written Scripture.   The notion that the supernatural gifts, including tongues, were just for the Apostolic age is of man and not of the Holy Spirit, and those who teach the notion are teaching are false prophets teaching false doctrine, and do so at their peril.

 

[David1701]

16 hours ago, enoob57 said:

not only do you not get it... your not even able to frame what is being said to address the issue... if the non-verbal then Scripture cannot be put into play and Scripture is all that can be trusted to be of the truth because God says so...

That (the part I've made bold) would mean that we could not trust anything you, or anyone else, ever said, unless it were a direct quote from Scripture.  Scripture is guaranteed to be true; but that does not mean that nothing else can be true.

You need to rethink this.

Edited February 1, 2021 by David1701
clarification

[enoob57]

16 hours ago, David1701 said:

That (the part I've made bold) would mean that we could not trust anything you, or anyone else, ever said, unless it were a direct quote from Scripture.  Scripture is guaranteed to be true; but that does not mean that nothing else can be true.

You need to rethink this.

Logically that is correct... but if I am to rest my being upon a good foundation I'm going to rest it on what God has specifically said!
So everything is weighed to be true by Scripture's witness or it remains suspect to me... Do you think God will not honor this in my heart?
 

John 17:17

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
KJV
 

2 Tim 3:15-17
 that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV
 

[David1701]

17 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Logically that is correct... but if I am to rest my being upon a good foundation I'm going to rest it on what God has specifically said!

I would not want to do anything to dissuade you from trusting in God and his word.  I completely agree that that is the only sure and certain foundation; however, there is more than one way of testing something and some things do not lend themselves easily to being tested by the written word alone.

Quote

So everything is weighed to be true by Scripture's witness or it remains suspect to me... Do you think God will not honor this in my heart?

Yes, test all things and test most things by Scripture (doctrine, practices, morals, etc.); but not everything can be tested easily by the written word (assuming that you know the word well enough).

What about the witness of the Holy Spirit?  Of course, he always agrees with Scripture; but he can also show you things that Scripture was not intended to show.

I visited a "Christian" community once, in southern England, when, looking across a sea of faces at the lunch tables, when I saw a guest and immediately knew that she was a born-again Christian.  I met her, spoke and prayed with her, and the discernment the Lord had given me was confirmed.  The Bible could not have told me that.

I was at the house of a Christian couple, with a friend, when the couple introduced me to someone who had very recently "given her life to Jesus".  I turned to shake her hand and immediately discerned in spirit that she was not born again.  The Bible could not have told me that, at least not without seeing evidence from the person's life, over a period of time.
 

Quote

 

John 17:17

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
KJV

2 Tim 3:15-17
 that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV

 

Amen to the Scriptures!