Tongues?

[SwordMaster]

"R" said...

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It was that character that made me decide to respond to @SwordMaster because he cites something similar inasmuch as he cites a misuse of the gift in context of the pentecostal doctrine of tongues being an evidence of the Holy Spirit in power. At least that seems to be what he may be saying.

 

To clarify, I stand with Scripture which teaches that the gift of tongues (when the Spirit is speaking through a person, not when they are abusing their prayer language) is a medium which God chooses to speak to His people, which is a sign for believers that God is active in that particular church body. I never stated nor implied that the gift of tongues somehow gives people power. The gift of tongues is, however, according to Scripture, when the Spirit is speaking through a person, evidence that the Spirit is working at least in that person, and most likely also in and through that church body.

If no one is manifesting any of the gifts of the Spirit, as listed by Paul in 2 Cor. 12, then most likely the Spirit is not in that church...and usually because of either false doctrine, or false pastors who God had never called into the ministry.

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[SwordMaster]

"R" said...

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I can see that your caustic spirit is unlikely to produce anything worthwhile so please accept my apology for presuming to address you at all.

 

You offend yourself. Nothing I stated was meant in a caustic spirit...All I did was ask you what you meant. It that hurt your feelings, then it was from your side of the screen, not mine.

And, just in case, I will apologize if it seems that I did say something purposely to offend. 

You sound like you started on the right track, hopefully you will pursue it further.

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[David1701]

17 hours ago, SwordMaster said:

David said...

 

Yes, some are really out of the ball park. I had my first minister's license through one until one year they chose to endorse the Brownsville Revival in Florida, particularly after a little girl was crushed to death by a woman supposedly "falling out" after one of the performers waved his jacket around him in a circle, and people in the front rows were supposedly slain in the Spirit. She fell backwards on top of the girl and killed her. The performers from the stage, said that it was her time...God wanted to take her, and what better place than in their revival.

 

I told them they had lost their spiritual sensitivity and I turned in my license. I could not be a part of an organization that was that blind.

Then you have snake dancers...yah, just because people believe in Christ doesn't mean that all of them have their marbles.

 

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That is a very sad story.  I can just imagine what that little girl's family must have thought.

[Guest kingdombrat]

18 hours ago, SwordMaster said:

David said...

 

Yes, some are really out of the ball park. I had my first minister's license through one until one year they chose to endorse the Brownsville Revival in Florida, particularly after a little girl was crushed to death by a woman supposedly "falling out" after one of the performers waved his jacket around him in a circle, and people in the front rows were supposedly slain in the Spirit. She fell backwards on top of the girl and killed her. The performers from the stage, said that it was her time...God wanted to take her, and what better place than in their revival.

 

I told them they had lost their spiritual sensitivity and I turned in my license. I could not be a part of an organization that was that blind.

Then you have snake dancers...yah, just because people believe in Christ doesn't mean that all of them have their marbles.

 

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Please explain to where Pentecostalism is all over the place for me.  It cannot be much different than the Baptists views between Arm. and Calvinism which are so diverse with no middle ground it's like watching a Psychological Disorder train wreck.

Edited December 4, 2020 by kingdombrat

[David1701]

On 12/4/2020 at 12:26 AM, rhomphaeam said:

On a more serious note:

My interest in the subject of tongues (along with all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit) stems from when I was converted in 1984. I received a letter from a friend who was converted in another place almost simultaneously to myself and he made a long appeal for me to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and specifically tongues. I remember feeling very uncomfortable with the issue of tongues. Then just a few days later I read about that gift in Corinthians and momentarily had a sort of crisis. I settled it by asking the Father to teach me His word because I had no way to refuse one portion of Scripture from another portion. It was two years later that I did speak in tongues and that was in private prayer at a time of extreme need due to sin in my life. That led me to a pentecostal church afterwards and that was when I really began to become alarmed at the things I was hearing. 

 

Some of your experience is quite similar to mine.  I was saved in March 1985 and one of the first issues with which I was faced, in the assembly I attended, was the gifts of the Holy Spirit, including speaking in tongues (the assembly was split down the middle).  I read 1 Cor. 12-14, Rom. 12, the ending of Mark, various parts of Acts, etc., along with books for and against the gifts ... and became thoroughly confused.

I prayed for God to give me understanding, so that I could believe the truth and, while I was in a prayer meeting, I heard someone speaking in tongues and "just knew" that that was from God.  It was a gift to me, at that moment, because I'd heard it before, including from the same person, and had been completely unsure.

I've since heard other true tongues, and some false ones (very disturbing), as well as witnessed other gifts of the Holy Spirit.

I can remember feeling led to speak out loud, in a tongue, in a small prayer meeting and praying silently for someone to interpret.  I became self-conscious and stopped suddenly, in mid flow.

Someone else got up and gave the interpretation, which was exactly what I'd been sensing intuitively, as I'd been praying (praise and worship to the Lord).  The interpretation stopped in mid sentence, which surprised the one who had been given the interpretation, but not me.

I had a friend, many years ago, who could speak German very well (native German speakers said that he had almost no British accent, when he spoke German).  He was in a meeting in Wales and heard someone praising God, in fluent, refined German.  He went over to him and began to speak to him, in German.  The other person could not understand a word he said, because he had never learned German...

I experienced the "laughing revival" and was very concerned, because much of what happened was definitely not of God.  One Christian was, supposedly, "laughing in the Spirit" and a cynical onlooker (also Christian, I think) decided to test whether or not it was of the Lord, by telling the laugher an off-colour joke (I certainly did not agree with his method but the result was revealing).  The laugher started to laugh even harder...

I've found that the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements are a giant mess and sorting the false from the true can be a full time job.

Edited December 6, 2020 by David1701
typo

[David1701]

6 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

Please explain to where Pentecostalism is all over the place for me.  It cannot be much different than the Baptists views between Arm. and Calvinism which are so diverse with no middle ground it's like watching a Psychological Disorder train wreck.

Pentecostals and Charismatics (especially Charismatics) tend to focus much more on experience than sound exegesis of Scripture.  They often don't test their experiences, or teachings, properly against Scripture, meaning that there is a great deal of error, of all different kinds, and it usually goes uncorrected.

Classic Pentecostals are usually sounder, but very man-centred, with far more exhortation than sound understanding and teaching of Scripture.

[Duck]

^{Acts 2}

⁴ And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

⁵ And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

⁶ Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

⁷ And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

⁸ And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

⁹ Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

¹⁰ Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

¹¹ Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

[Alive]

Shortly after being saved in 1976, I was taught about the baptism of the Holy Spirit and tongues as an evidence. I read the scriptures and believed what I was taught. Sure enough, I have been speaking in tongues ever since in prayer and praise. It’s wonderfully joyous and edifying. If memory serves, I have only spoken thus once in a meeting and have prophesied a number of times. I have also seen these things abused and false.

Discernment is required and the Lord provides for the sake of His Body.

[David1701]

Just now, Alive said:

Shortly after being saved in 1976, I was taught about the baptism of the Holy Spirit and tongues as an evidence. I read the scriptures and believed what I was taught. Sure enough, I have been speaking in tongues ever since in prayer and praise. It’s wonderfully joyous and edifying. If memory serves, I have only spoken thus once in a meeting and have prophesied a number of times. I have also seen these things abused and false.

Discernment is required and the Lord provides for the sake of His Body.

Amen.

[Duck]