No rapture! Mt 24

[R. Hartono]

1 minute ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Yeabh, that is what MissMuffet often says: "Time will tell!"

Just a thought why wud God rapture the saints if Tribulation is over n antichrist is dead alrdy, the devil is jailed n the world returns to peace ?

What are they trying to runaway to the cloud from ?

Just to make a U-Turn at the cloud to return to earth ?     ???

[Omegaman 3.0]

37 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

Just a thought why wud God rapture the saints if Tribulation is over n antichrist is dead alrdy, the devil is jailed n the world returns to peace ?

What are they trying to runaway to the cloud from ?

Just to make a U-Turn at the cloud to return to earth ?     ???

Well, someone has to make a u-turn, unless everyone just hovers for a thousand years. I think it is hard to have people all in one place (with Jesus), unless there is a gathering first.

My thought is that asking why God does something, is not the best way to determine what He is going to do. I just prefer to see what it is that He says will happen. I think though, that the rapture is to gather believers to be with Him forever, and that the first order of business after the rapture, is to come to Earth at His second and visible coming. At that time He will bring with Him (not take them away) the dead in Christ first, then those who are alive and remain (For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. ). A bit of a dust-up with King Jesus in command, and the Millennium will begin. After the Mill, as you know the Devil is free again, but he and the beast and the false prophet, are tossed into the lake of fire for eternal torment.

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Afterwards, we have the big and final battle, the outcome is: . . .  but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Right?

[CaptWalker]

Well first of all the word "taken" in Matthew 24 and Luke 17 isn't even HARPAZO but an entirely different Greek word(Strong's #3880) which isn't even associated at all with that meaning. This is something you can look up online as far as the Greek and Hebrew translations, and i use Studylight.org, which has very good Bible study tools. 

Also i personally believe the 2nd half of the Tribulation will be shortened to about one year, "as in the days of Noah" when he and family were in the ark for about that same time frame. Also mentions the 5 month period in Revelation 9 which i believe is part of this time.(And also because of 150 days in Genesis 7:24)  Now i do believe in Post Trib rapture/2nd coming, BUT if Christ were to come earlier than that i am 110% convinced it would happen no earlier than Mid-Trib., but again i just can't believe it will happen that way. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by CaptWalker

[Revelation Man]

On 8/16/2020 at 11:20 AM, Markesmith said:

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

after the second coming He gathers the elect!

The ELECT who weere ELECTED after the Rapture. That was very SIMPLE was it not?

I mean Rev. 19 states we marry the Lamb in Heaven then cone back with Jesus while the Beast and his MINIONS are still on earth. That also is VERY SIMPLE. How you guys conflate it is beyond me.

[Revelation Man]

On 8/19/2020 at 2:06 AM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Well, someone has to make a u-turn, unless everyone just hovers for a thousand years. I think it is hard to have people all in one place (with Jesus), unless there is a gathering first.

My thought is that asking why God does something, is not the best way to determine what He is going to do. I just prefer to see what it is that He says will happen. I think though, that the rapture is to gather believers to be with Him forever, and that the first order of business after the rapture, is to come to Earth at His second and visible coming. At that time He will bring with Him (not take them away) the dead in Christ first, then those who are alive and remain (For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. ). A bit of a dust-up with King Jesus in command, and the Millennium will begin. After the Mill, as you know the Devil is free again, but he and the beast and the false prophet, are tossed into the lake of fire for eternal torment.

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Afterwards, we have the big and final battle, the outcome is: . . .  but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Right?

The Jewish tradition is that the Bride and Groom stay in the fathers house 7 days (7 years). We go to marry the Lamb, we see the Bride in Rev. 4 and 5 BEFORE the Seals are opened. We see the Bride coming back from Heaven with Jesus. The Church DEPARTS from the earth, the so called "FALLING AWAY" actually means Departure, not from faith, but from the earth, by the Church, thus Paul told the Thessalonians not to fear the Day of the Lord.

Those that say it doesn't mean that then say, well, Paul was telling them not to fear because they couldn't ever be in God's Wrath, because this, this and this must happen. Well, that goes against Jesus' own words, NO MAN knows the day the Lord will come for us. So, Paul tells hem not to fear because WE (CHURCH) will not be here, the very first first verse tells us the whole passage is.....AS CONCERNING THE GATHERING UNTO Christ..........Yet we go and make it about THE FAITH !! 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Uriah]

On 8/25/2020 at 10:46 AM, Revelation Man said:

The Jewish tradition is that the Bride and Groom stay in the fathers house 7 days (7 years). We go to marry the Lamb, we see the Bride in Rev. 4 and 5 BEFORE the Seals are opened. We see the Bride coming back from Heaven with Jesus. The Church DEPARTS from the earth, the so called "FALLING AWAY" actually means Departure, not from faith, but from the earth, by the Church, thus Paul told the Thessalonians not to fear the Day of the Lord.

Those that say it doesn't mean that then say, well, Paul was telling them not to fear because they couldn't ever be in God's Wrath, because this, this and this must happen. Well, that goes against Jesus' own words, NO MAN knows the day the Lord will come for us. So, Paul tells hem not to fear because WE (CHURCH) will not be here, the very first first tells us the whole passage is.....AS CONCERNING THE GATHERING UNTO Christ..........Yet we go and make it about THE FAITH !! 

Hello Revelation Man

This "tradition" you refer to, have you ever seen ANY ancient source? I haven't, and I have been asking pre trib believers to produce one document for many years......none!

It is a modern-day pre trib device with faint references to perhaps Jewish encyclopedia prattle or authors who quote each other around the circle. Better to believe the scriptures.

[Revelation Man]

On 8/30/2020 at 7:05 PM, Uriah said:

Hello Revelation Man

This "tradition" you refer to, have you ever seen ANY ancient source? I haven't, and I have been asking pre trib believers to produce one document for many years......none!

It is a modern-day pre trib device with faint references to perhaps Jewish encyclopedia prattle or authors who quote each other around the circle. Better to believe the scriptures.

Should I read it for you also ? I mean, these things are not just GUESSES MAN !! I don't go around guessing. 

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/ancient-jewish-marriage/

http://luke810.com/wedpatt.htm

Edited September 1, 2020 by Revelation Man

[RonaldBruno]

13 hours ago, Uriah said:

Hello Revelation Man

This "tradition" you refer to, have you ever seen ANY ancient source? I haven't, and I have been asking pre trib believers to produce one document for many years......none!

It is a modern-day pre trib device with faint references to perhaps Jewish encyclopedia prattle or authors who quote each other around the circle. Better to believe the scriptures.

That's one thing I never got from any Eschatological studies is that there would be pomp and circumstance, (a wedding supper and celebration_ for 7 years _ in Heaven), while catastrophic judgment is being reigned down upon the unbelievers. 

What I do see in several areas is a 3 1/2 year Great Tribulation period.

[Last Daze]

15 minutes ago, RonaldBruno said:

What I do see in several areas is a 3 1/2 year Great Tribulation period.

Agree.  And if you look at those 3.5 years closely, there is tribulation for both awake believers (the mark and image) and those who fell asleep (the seven plagues).

The seven plagues will serve to wake up those who were deceived into taking the mark and worshiping the image so that they might repent.

[RonaldBruno]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

Agree.  And if you look at those 3.5 years closely, there is tribulation for both awake believers (the mark and image) and those who fell asleep (the seven plagues).

The seven plagues will serve to wake up those who were deceived into taking the mark and worshiping the image so that they might repent.

If you read Rev. 16, verses 9 and 11 both claim that NO ONE Repents during this time.

Rev. 11:15 looks like the rapture to me and so we all believers are gone. Those left behind are unbelievers after that point except for the remnant Israel who were sealed most likely at the time every eye sees HIM and they mourn, realizing who their Messiah is.