What are these spirit things that are inside of us?

[Bob Carabbio]

5 hours ago, Peterlag said:

Romans 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

"Living in SIN" is one thing, and "Sinning" as a Born Again Christian is quite another.  If you're Born Again, why do YOU still SIN (just like everybody else now and again)????

[Wesley L]

19 hours ago, Wesley L said:

Unfortunately you turned my answers down and question me. I will follow your lead.
1 John 3:6-10
6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

You are making a good point with these verses. Does God truly mean that a born again believer will never sin?
Let's say if that is true.

• Hebrews 12:6 For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, And He scourges every son whom He receives.”
• Deuteronomy 8:5 Thus you are to know in your heart that the Lord your God was disciplining you just as a man disciplines his son.
• Revelation 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.
• Hebrews 12:11 All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.

Why would God still need to discpline, reprove believers?

Back to my story.
During that soccer match. Same thing happened to the opponent. But this time he (non christian) was honest and gave us ball posession. At that moment I saw with 100% clarity the truth. Even the smallest lie is not acceptable. And this non christian was even more righteous in his behaviour than me. Next to lying, I was also a hypocrite. The conviction came to me with 100% clarity. What happened next was that I got into an accident. And my ribs were bruised seriously. They had to take me to the hospital. I needed 2 weeks to recover from that injury. We speak/lie with the air in our lungs, using the muscles around the ribcage.

My questions would be:

• How would you view such a situation?
• Do I have the Holy Spirit in me?
• Am I saved?
• How could I lie?

Hello @Peterlag,

I try to proceed the conversation a little bit more. But since lacking direct answers from you, I want to answer them through your beliefs. If I am mistaken in presenting your beliefs, forgive me and feel free to correct me.

• How would you view such a situation? According to your beliefs, I am not a born again believer. Because a born again believer is without sin.
• Do I have the Holy Spirit in me? No, only a born again sinless believer has the Holy Spirit.
• Am I saved? No, a saved believer is sinless.
• How could I lie? I am not a true believer.

The follow up question would be.

• How can I be saved?
• What are the true marks of a born again believer?

Edited August 28, 2020 by Wesley L

[Marathoner]

20 hours ago, leah777 said:

so - what does 1 John 3 mean? I am struggling with this.

I noticed your question last night, @leah777, but it was late and these old eyes were tired. I'll do my best to help. This will be long but there's no avoiding that.   

There was a time when I struggled with the apostle John's first letter (1 John). At the risk of confusing you at the outset let me say that Peterlag and @Bob Carabbio are both correct. In my estimation Bob Carrabio conveys the truth of our present estate in a manner which is more easily understood. Bob has outlined the context of 1 John very well using few words. 

I prayerfully studied the apostle John's letters for a long time, returning to 1 John again and again. This was a burden the Lord placed before me so I might grasp at the unfathomable mercy and love of our Lord and God, who came to me when I was broken and dying.

Instead of pasting the entire work of scripture I'll share key passages which will aid in understanding the entirety of the apostle's letter, written during a time when false teachers were rampant. We know of these wolves today as Gnostics: antichrists who sought to lead the Lord's flock astray, teaching that sin was inconsequential and denying Christ Jesus came in the flesh. That's just a sample of what Gnostic heretics promulgated during the apostle John's day.  As far as I know, John outlived the other apostles and was the only one who wasn't martyred. 

Keep this in mind while you read the opening verses of the first chapter. John reaffirms his witness and testimony in a manner similar to the Gospel he wrote: "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;" (opening verse of 1 John). This is a refutation of the Gnostics who denied the Word made flesh.  

There were a plethora of Gnostic teachers afoot, all vying against one one another for supremacy. Some taught we could sin freely because that was the nature of this flesh while others maintained those who achieved gnosis (perfect knowledge) couldn't sin. Therefore,

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:6-10)

True to the testimony of God's Spirit given to us in the scriptures, John describes what some of us know as sanctification. You'll find this truth expressed in 2 Corinthians 3:18: the Spirit of the Lord is conforming us to the image of Jesus Christ from glory to glory, something which implies a work in progress. Because we are in the Son of God and He is in us, His Holy Spirit convicts us of sin if we sin... and when we confess this sin to Him he is faithful and just to cleanse of us of the stain. As we see later on in 1 John, there's a difference between living in sin (walking in darkness) and those sins which we, who see things darkly and only in part, might commit along this narrow path to our Lord. Here's a great example of what I'm getting at:

In the 20th chapter of the book of Numbers, the Lord commanded Moses to speak to the rock so water might flow from it. Moses struck the rock with his staff instead of speaking to it as the Lord commanded and because of this, the Lord didn't permit Moses and Aaron to enter the promised land. Was Moses (and Aaron) a sinner because of this? No, of course not. We see the proof of that when Jesus speaks to Moses and Elijah on the mountain as written in the gospels. Many seem to forget that our God is merciful, swift to forgive trespass. The prophet Jonah knew this well!

Peterlag is correct in that no sin is accounted to us when we walk according to the Spirit of God because we listen to Him and when He convicts us wrongdoing, we repent and obey His voice. There's a learning curve at work here... hence why our sanctification is a process. This speaks of God's mercy and kindness toward us. If we didn't have need of our Teacher, then why would we need to confess our sins when He convicts us?

Bob Carrabio is correct in pointing out that we cannot say we have no sin. Bob possesses the proper understanding of 1 John and what the apostle wrote therein. Our heart for the Lord is what matters most of all and only Christ knows the full measure of our heart. The Lord is not a man who sees darkly and knows only in part.  

Sorry for the length, leah777. Context is critical and I hope this last part will help you fit 1 John together into what the Spirit of God is teaching us through John's writing. To differentiate between living in sin (walking in darkness) and committing a sin, the following from the fifth chapter of 1 John tells us,

And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. (1 John 5: 14-17)

What is sin leading to death? Walking in darkness. What is sin not leading to death? That which the Lord cleanses from us. Has my babble made any difference? I pray that it has. 

[leah777]

17 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

I noticed your question last night, @leah777, but it was late and these old eyes were tired. I'll do my best to help. This will be long but there's no avoiding that.   

There was a time when I struggled with the apostle John's first letter (1 John). At the risk of confusing you at the outset let me say that Peterlag and @Bob Carabbio are both correct. In my estimation Bob Carrabio conveys the truth of our present estate in a manner which is more easily understood. Bob has outlined the context of 1 John very well using few words. 

I prayerfully studied the apostle John's letters for a long time, returning to 1 John again and again. This was a burden the Lord placed before me so I might grasp at the unfathomable mercy and love of our Lord and God, who came to me when I was broken and dying.

Instead of pasting the entire work of scripture I'll share key passages which will aid in understanding the entirety of the apostle's letter, written during a time when false teachers were rampant. We know of these wolves today as Gnostics: antichrists who sought to lead the Lord's flock astray, teaching that sin was inconsequential and denying Christ Jesus came in the flesh. That's just a sample of what Gnostic heretics promulgated during the apostle John's day.  As far as I know, John outlived the other apostles and was the only one who wasn't martyred. 

Keep this in mind while you read the opening verses of the first chapter. John reaffirms his witness and testimony in a manner similar to the Gospel he wrote: "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;" (opening verse of 1 John). This is a refutation of the Gnostics who denied the Word made flesh.  

There were a plethora of Gnostic teachers afoot, all vying against one one another for supremacy. Some taught we could sin freely because that was the nature of this flesh while others maintained those who achieved gnosis (perfect knowledge) couldn't sin. Therefore,

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:6-10)

True to the testimony of God's Spirit given to us in the scriptures, John describes what some of us know as sanctification. You'll find this truth expressed in 2 Corinthians 3:18: the Spirit of the Lord is conforming us to the image of Jesus Christ from glory to glory, something which implies a work in progress. Because we are in the Son of God and He is in us, His Holy Spirit convicts us of sin if we sin... and when we confess this sin to Him he is faithful and just to cleanse of us of the stain. As we see later on in 1 John, there's a difference between living in sin (walking in darkness) and those sins which we, who see things darkly and only in part, might commit along this narrow path to our Lord. Here's a great example of what I'm getting at:

In the 20th chapter of the book of Numbers, the Lord commanded Moses to speak to the rock so water might flow from it. Moses struck the rock with his staff instead of speaking to it as the Lord commanded and because of this, the Lord didn't permit Moses and Aaron to enter the promised land. Was Moses (and Aaron) a sinner because of this? No, of course not. We see the proof of that when Jesus speaks to Moses and Elijah on the mountain as written in the gospels. Many seem to forget that our God is merciful, swift to forgive trespass. The prophet Jonah knew this well!

Peterlag is correct in that no sin is accounted to us when we walk according to the Spirit of God because we listen to Him and when He convicts us wrongdoing, we repent and obey His voice. There's a learning curve at work here... hence why our sanctification is a process. This speaks of God's mercy and kindness toward us. If we didn't have need of our Teacher, then why would we need to confess our sins when He convicts us?

Bob Carrabio is correct in pointing out that we cannot say we have no sin. Bob possesses the proper understanding of 1 John and what the apostle wrote therein. Our heart for the Lord is what matters most of all and only Christ knows the full measure of our heart. The Lord is not a man who sees darkly and knows only in part.  

Sorry for the length, leah777. Context is critical and I hope this last part will help you fit 1 John together into what the Spirit of God is teaching us through John's writing. To differentiate between living in sin (walking in darkness) and committing a sin, the following from the fifth chapter of 1 John tells us,

And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. (1 John 5: 14-17)

What is sin leading to death? Walking in darkness. What is sin not leading to death? That which the Lord cleanses from us. Has my babble made any difference? I pray that it has. 

Thank you. Yes, it has. Thank you for taking the time and effort to explain this. 

Scripture is never wrong, so I know it was my understanding at fault.

[Marathoner]

3 minutes ago, leah777 said:

Thank you. Yes, it has. Thank you for taking the time and effort to explain this. 

Scripture is never wrong, so I know it was my understanding at fault.

You're in good company, sister. Many of us have struggled to understand 1 John because at first glance it seems confusing and even contradictory. There's something else I want to share: we are confident in the Lord's work which He started in us. We are learning and growing at all times so it's important to remember that God is merciful! His Holy Spirit cleanses us, teaches us, guides us, and makes the way straight. Yes, it's a challenge to put our faith in the living God. Remember the apostle Peter?

I sure do. How many times did the Lord rebuke Peter? And yet Peter is an apostle called of God and his heart before the Lord is without question.  

[Sower]

1 hour ago, Marathoner said:

In the 20th chapter of the book of Numbers, the Lord commanded Moses to speak to the rock so water might flow from it. Moses struck the rock with his staff instead of speaking to it as the Lord commanded and because of this, the Lord didn't permit Moses and Aaron to enter the promised land. Was Moses (and Aaron) a sinner because of this? No, of course not.

Marathoner, you might want to define what you believe a sinner is to understand your post above.
Moses was chastised, and it wasn't for good works.
And if you ck out his history, there was other 'sins' committed.

[Marathoner]

10 hours ago, Sower said:

Marathoner, you might want to define what you believe a sinner is to understand your post above.
Moses was chastised, and it wasn't for good works.
And if you ck out his history, there was other 'sins' committed.

True enough, brother, and well said. I furnished the example of the rock from Numbers 20 in an effort to illustrate the mercy of our God who forgives the transgressions of His servants. Only Christ is perfect without spot or blemish. We who are in Him are sinners no longer by the grace of God but seeing as how we strive against this corruptible flesh during our sojourn in this world, it's a lie to assert that we are without sin. Would you agree that God's Spirit leads us and that it's good to heed Him instead of this flesh we still bear? Every one of us is capable of making mistakes which is confirmation of what the apostle wrote under the inspiration of the Lord.  Being treated like sons and daughters (reproved, admonished, corrected) is proof of our Father's love for His servants. 

A sinner is one who hardens themselves against the testimony of the Holy Spirit, sent into this world to convict the ungodly of their ungodly deeds. Thus a sinner walks in darkness because the truth is not found in them. We may also consider the fruit of such a one because there are those who say they know the Son of God but by their actions, are indistinguishable from those who do not believe in Him at all. I hope that is concise enough. Thank you for raising those points, @Sower.  

[Peterlag]

16 hours ago, Wesley L said:

Hello @Peterlag,

I try to proceed the conversation a little bit more. But since lacking direct answers from you, I want to answer them through your beliefs. If I am mistaken in presenting your beliefs, forgive me and feel free to correct me.

• How would you view such a situation? According to your beliefs, I am not a born again believer. Because a born again believer is without sin.
• Do I have the Holy Spirit in me? No, only a born again sinless believer has the Holy Spirit.
• Am I saved? No, a saved believer is sinless.
• How could I lie? I am not a true believer.

The follow up question would be.

• How can I be saved?
• What are the true marks of a born again believer?

Again, I will only answer 1 question at a time and there is a good reason for this. To answer 5 on the same subject matter (the Bible) is how people confuse which answer I'm giving to what question. They then accuse me of not answering their question. So yes, I'm not going to respond to 5 different questions on the same subject matter.

[Peterlag]

17 hours ago, Bob Carabbio said:

"Living in SIN" is one thing, and "Sinning" as a Born Again Christian is quite another.  If you're Born Again, why do YOU still SIN (just like everybody else now and again)????

Romans 3:20 tells us "for by the law is the knowledge of sin." And I'm not following the law because "by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight:" We are not on the same page and therefore we do not agree.

[leah777]

5 hours ago, Peterlag said:

Romans 3:20 tells us "for by the law is the knowledge of sin." And I'm not following the law because "by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight:" We are not on the same page and therefore we do not agree.

I recommend you read the entire chapter. Picking isolated verses is not usually a good idea, as the context and target audience and much of the sense is lost.