Revelation 6:2 White horse

[Charlie744]

I expect to complete the first phase of Daniel (all 12 chapters) within the next 2 months. 

I was instructed to study Daniel before I attempt Revelation. Because I had  so much difficulty with 11, I found/started to seek assistance within this forum.

I would not want or feel the need to try and tackle Revelation the same way-I believe it will be so much more challenging, and because there is so much talent within this forum, I would to learn with as many folks that are interested... it is ALWAYS so much more enjoyable when you can be part of a team.

Consequently, in Revelation 6:2, it reads-

“And I heard and I saw, and behold a white horse and he who sat on it had a bow and a crown was given to him and he went out victorious, both conquering and to conquer”.

I guess if I was going to tackle this verse, I would list out the specific characteristics, and try to ensure my interpretation includes all of them:

1) white horse- why a horse, why white,

2) who is “he” sitting on the horse,

3) this “he” had a bow- where is the arrow: was “he” not given one or did “he” already shoot it,

4) a crown was given to him - crown given after he had been sitting, what does the crown signify, is this his permission to go out.. who gave him the crown, 

5) he went out victorious- against who, is “he” a good or bad “he”, 

6) why two separate actions... both conquering and to conquer... seems that was his intended purpose or mission (was this “mission” a designed role or did “he” decide on his own to conquer,

7) are there any Scriptures that can identify these characteristics or identity

As mentioned in previous posts, I know NOTHING of Revelation and would respectfully ask for your comments and opinions.

Thank you very much, Charlie 

[John n Claudia]

Charlie,

 

2 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

“And I heard and I saw, and behold a white horse and he who sat on it had a bow and a crown was given to him and he went out victorious, both conquering and to conquer”.

I guess if I was going to tackle this verse, I would list out the specific characteristics, and try to ensure my interpretation includes all of them:

1) white horse- why a horse, why white,

2) who is “he” sitting on the horse,

3) this “he” had a bow- where is the arrow: was “he” not given one or did “he” already shoot it,

4) a crown was given to him - crown given after he had been sitting, what does the crown signify, is this his permission to go out.. who gave him the crown, 

5) he went out victorious- against who, is “he” a good or bad “he”, 

6) why two separate actions... both conquering and to conquer... seems that was his intended purpose or mission (was this “mission” a designed role or did “he” decide on his own to conquer,

7) are there any Scriptures that can identify these characteristics or identity

There are many many theories about the white horse, ranging from the white horse being Jesus who was released after Pentecost to spread his church across the world to this being the antichrist at the end of the age.

The theory that I like best is the theory that ties the first seal to the visions in Daniel.  In Daniel all the end time prophecies were presented as a series of empires in chapters 2, 7 and 8.  To me, this indicates that in the broad sweep of history, the empires are demarcations of some sort.  As a result of this, the rider on the white horse should be representative of the empire that is supposed to come after the Roman Empire per Revelation 17:2.

Of course this then raises the next question of what is this next empire and again there are many theories about this including the Roman Catholic Church, the British Empire, the United Nations, the European Union and many others.

When I tried to figure this out, I looked at what tied together the first six empires which were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medea-Persia, Greece, and Rome.  I came up with the following two things that all of these had in common:

1. Each empire was militarily defeated by the previous empire and
2. Each empire controlled the Holy Land

 

It made sense to me that in a succession of empires, each empire would have to defeat the previous empires because that is what empires do.  They go out to conquer and they look for the biggest enemy that they can beat.

It also made sense that they controlled the Holy Land because this succession of empires is listed in the Bible and the Bible is all about the Jews and the land that God promised to them.

As a result, you just need to identify which empire defeated the Roman Empire and controlled the Holy Land in order to identify the seventh and last empire.  This is where things get tricky because when people look to find out who defeated the Roman Empire, they always look at who conquered its namesake city.  The problem with doing this is that when the city of Rome was sacked, the emperors had already moved the capital, so conquering the city of Rome did not conquer the Roman Empire.

The capital was moved from Rome to Constantinople (modern day Istanbul) after Constantine took over, so in order to find out who conquered the Roman Empire, we need to figure out who sacked Constantinople.  This of course is a famous battle because throughout its entire history, it was only sacked once and this occurred in 1453 when Emperor Mehmet of the Ottoman Empire took it over in 1453, changing the city from Christian to Muslim and converting the Hagia Sofia from a church to a mosque.

The thing that I found most interesting about this was that after the city was sacked, Mehmet rode into the city on a white horse.

Since the Ottomans also controlled the Holy Land for hundreds of years, this makes them a very strong candidate for the seventh and last empire.

The case for them is also strengthened when you consider what happened when they were defeated.  They were defeated after they sided with the central powers in WW1 and lost.  This means that they were not defeated by another empire, exactly as would be required if the series of empires were to end with them

Additionally, WW1 led directly to WW2 and then the cold war, and the war on terror.  Essentially with their defeat peace was taken away from the earth as required for the second horse.  Note also that this has greatly accelerated in recent days with the COVID-19 pandemic and the George Floyd protests which not only has taken peace away from the earth, but it has taken peace away from individuals and families.

In my opinion, the events described in the Bible are accelerating as we get closer and closer to the return of our Lord.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by John n Claudia

[Charlie744]

John, my head is already spinning out of control!

First, thanks for responding.

Because I have no knowledge of Revelation, I wanted to start at the beginning (near beginning), and try to pull out the characteristics for each verse, if necessary. Most of what you mentioned is Greek to me (no pun intended).

Is it possible to discuss and / or identify the individual characteristics for the individual on the white horse- they certainly have been put there by God to assist us ... 

Thanks, Charlie 

[Charlie744]

John, forgot to ask you about Revelation- big picture:

I noticed you have responded by giving me an overview of Revelation- 30,000 foot view. And if I read this correctly, you believe there are many verses that can be identified by literal kingdoms or empires including the possibility of the US or Russia, etc. You also mention the need to follow / identify the post Roman kingdoms.

All of this tells me you look at Revelation on a literal approach versus a spiritual one. 

Please offer your thoughts, Charlie 

[Charlie744]

Sorry John, I think I need to ask another question before this moves forward.

Maybe it is not fair to try and unpack just the “white horse” verse —- maybe it is too early or too micro at this time.

Would it be more appropriate to try an carve out those verses that speak to ALL four of the horses? 

In other words, what do the four horses mean- what time period are they speaking about... and once we are comfortable with the “purpose” of the four horses, it would be easier to unpack each horse and rider.

Thanks again... the approach to this whole thing is important before the details.. Charlie 

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

I expect to complete the first phase of Daniel (all 12 chapters) within the next 2 months. 

I was instructed to study Daniel before I attempt Revelation. Because I had  so much difficulty with 11, I found/started to seek assistance within this forum.

I would not want or feel the need to try and tackle Revelation the same way-I believe it will be so much more challenging, and because there is so much talent within this forum, I would to learn with as many folks that are interested... it is ALWAYS so much more enjoyable when you can be part of a team.

Consequently, in Revelation 6:2, it reads-

“And I heard and I saw, and behold a white horse and he who sat on it had a bow and a crown was given to him and he went out victorious, both conquering and to conquer”.

I guess if I was going to tackle this verse, I would list out the specific characteristics, and try to ensure my interpretation includes all of them:

1) white horse- why a horse, why white,

2) who is “he” sitting on the horse,

3) this “he” had a bow- where is the arrow: was “he” not given one or did “he” already shoot it,

4) a crown was given to him - crown given after he had been sitting, what does the crown signify, is this his permission to go out.. who gave him the crown, 

5) he went out victorious- against who, is “he” a good or bad “he”, 

6) why two separate actions... both conquering and to conquer... seems that was his intended purpose or mission (was this “mission” a designed role or did “he” decide on his own to conquer,

7) are there any Scriptures that can identify these characteristics or identity

As mentioned in previous posts, I know NOTHING of Revelation and would respectfully ask for your comments and opinions.

Thank you very much, Charlie 

1.) White Horse stands for a "Conqueror" just as Jesus returns to CONQUER in Rev. 19.

2.) The Anti-Christ, just like he is the Red Horse, the Black Horse and the Pale Green Horse.

3.) If its a testament to weaponry, then he goes forth conquering, from my research its like a SIMPLE FABRIC, which would show him not to be the Majestic King of kings Jesus Christ, just like his Crown is a Simple crown given to a winner of events, not a Crown of Glory via the Majestic King of Kings. TO WIT:

#5115 τόξον toxon {tox'-on} from the base of G5088; TDNT - n/a; n n

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) a bow

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From the base of G5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric):—bow.

4.) And..........as per the Crowne..........

#4735 Στέφανος stephanos {stef'-an-os} from an apparently primary stepho (to twine or wreathe); TDNT - 7:615,1078; n m

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1a1) the wreath or garland which was given as a prize to victors in public games.

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From an apparently primary "stepho" (to twine or wreathe); a chaplet (as a badge of royalty, a prize in the public games or a symbol of honor generally; but more conspicuous and elaborate than the simple fillet, G1238), literally or figuratively:—crown.

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

So, these seem to be identifying THIS CONQUEROR as inferior to the one true Majestic Conqueror of Glory, via describing his adornment as being SIMPLISTIC in nature. Both the CROWN & BOW (Garments) are described as base compared to Jesus in Revelation 19.

5.) He Conquers Israel AND the whole Mediterranean Sea Region as shown in Dan. 11:40-43.

6.) Satan gives him his seat, so Satan is the strategist, that is why it is stated in Dan. 8 that he understands DARK SENTENCES/Riddles, Satan understands the best time to attack is when chaos is ongoing, the asteroid strike in Rev. 8 will be a great time to attack. CHAOS.

7. Far and wide, I don't have the time this morning to run them all down. 

[Charlie744]

Thank you very much RM, that was certainly a lot to take in... 

As you could easily determine from my initial post, I meant to try and take Revelation in baby steps... this is going to be a very difficult assignment.

I have sent John a following post to his first response... mentioning the approach may not be practical or the best method of learning Revelation.

And perhaps taking just a slightly larger chunk of Revelation (those verses that one might consider as a common theme), so I wanted to ask:

If we take a 30,000 view of the 4 horses and not just the white horse...

So what are the 4 horses supposed to represent?

Are they 4 periods in man’s history with horse and rider providing the specific message of that period?

Thanks again, Charlie 

[Revelation Man]

7 hours ago, John n Claudia said:

Charlie,

 

There are many many theories about the white horse, ranging from the white horse being Jesus who was released after Pentecost to spread his church across the world to this being the antichrist at the end of the age.

The theory that I like best is the theory that ties the first seal to the visions in Daniel.  In Daniel all the end time prophecies were presented as a series of empires in chapters 2, 7 and 8.  To me, this indicates that in the broad sweep of history, the empires are demarcations of some sort.  As a result of this, the rider on the white horse should be representative of the empire that is supposed to come after the Roman Empire per Revelation 17:2.

Of course this then raises the next question of what is this next empire and again there are many theories about this including the Roman Catholic Church, the British Empire, the United Nations, the European Union and many others.

When I tried to figure this out, I looked at what tied together the first six empires which were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medea-Persia, Greece, and Rome.  I came up with the following two things that all of these had in common:

1. Each empire was militarily defeated by the previous empire and
2. Each empire controlled the Holy Land

 

It made sense to me that in a succession of empires, each empire would have to defeat the previous empires because that is what empires do.  They go out to conquer and they look for the biggest enemy that they can beat.

It also made sense that they controlled the Holy Land because this succession of empires is listed in the Bible and the Bible is all about the Jews and the land that God promised to them.

As a result, you just need to identify which empire defeated the Roman Empire and controlled the Holy Land in order to identify the seventh and last empire.  This is where things get tricky because when people look to find out who defeated the Roman Empire, they always look at who conquered its namesake city.  The problem with doing this is that when the city of Rome was sacked, the emperors had already moved the capital, so conquering the city of Rome did not conquer the Roman Empire.

The capital was moved from Rome to Constantinople (modern day Istanbul) after Constantine took over, so in order to find out who conquered the Roman Empire, we need to figure out who sacked Constantinople.  This of course is a famous battle because throughout its entire history, it was only sacked once and this occurred in 1453 when Emperor Mehmet of the Ottoman Empire took it over in 1453, changing the city from Christian to Muslim and converting the Hagia Sofia from a church to a mosque.

The thing that I found most interesting about this was that after the city was sacked, Mehmet rode into the city on a white horse.

Since the Ottomans also controlled the Holy Land for hundreds of years, this makes them a very strong candidate for the seventh and last empire.

The case for them is also strengthened when you consider what happened when they were defeated.  They were defeated after they sided with the central powers in WW1 and lost.  This means that they were not defeated by another empire, exactly as would be required if the series of empires were to end with them

Additionally, WW1 led directly to WW2 and then the cold war, and the war on terror.  Essentially with their defeat peace was taken away from the earth as required for the second horse.  Note also that this has greatly accelerated in recent days with the COVID-19 pandemic and the George Floyd protests which not only has taken peace away from the earth, but it has taken peace away from individuals and families.

In my opinion, the events described in the Bible are accelerating as we get closer and closer to the return of our Lord.

 

 

Its not about the "Holy Land" per se John, its about Israel, and Israel were as "Dead Men's Bones" for nigh 2000 years until 1948. There could be no Beast. This is why the Brits nor the Ottoman Empire is a Beast. The LAST BEAST is a man, not an empire per se, because he never passes his kingdom on to another man, because he is allowed to rule on 42 months, and then is cast straight into hell. (SEE Daniel 7:11 and Revelation 19:20)

Rome fell via the Church overcoming the Beast, the gates of hell could not overcome the Church. Rome went from being a Beast to a conveyor belt of the Gospel. Only after the Rapture can the Beast reform against Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region. 

The Dan. 2 passages are KEY HERE:

The number 10 stands for the WHOLE of something being spoken of. In the 10 Virgin Brides it stand for the Church in full, in Rev. 2:10 when Jesus told them they would have tribulation for 10 days, it means for the ENTIRE Church Age (you will have Tribulation ALWAYS). So, the number 10 represents the FULLNESS of the entity being spoken about. Thus the 10 Toes = ALL Europe. They are Fractured for nigh 2000 years, they can not be reformed even though they try via mingling the SEED OF MEN.....Royal Marriage.....and no doubt Charlemagne tried, as did Napoleon and Hitler, but of course to no avail. They stayed FRACTURED, that is what the Legs of Iron and Clay represent, a fractured Europe. Thus the 10 is ALL of the Fractured Kingdom. The 10 arises during the End Times BEFORE the Beast comes to power, that only means that the E.U. Formed in the 50s-70s to become one nation again. We now see the end results, they are a united nation again, not 10, but 26 or 27 nations, which the number 10 covers. (The full amount thereof). 

Then, this LITTLE HORN Arises amongst them, he is born in Greece, of Assyrian (Turkish descent) and comes to power in the E.U.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

3 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Thank you very much RM, that was certainly a lot to take in... 

As you could easily determine from my initial post, I meant to try and take Revelation in baby steps... this is going to be a very difficult assignment.

I have sent John a following post to his first response... mentioning the approach may not be practical or the best method of learning Revelation.

And perhaps taking just a slightly larger chunk of Revelation (those verses that one might consider as a common theme), so I wanted to ask:

If we take a 30,000 view of the 4 horses and not just the white horse...

So what are the 4 horses supposed to represent?

Are they 4 periods in man’s history with horse and rider providing the specific message of that period?

Thanks again, Charlie 

YW.

They all represent the exact same 42 month period. The Seals are not ACTIONABLE (I only learned this in the last year). It is Jesus opening a Seal to a book of Judgments, the book can only be opened when all 7 Seals are opened, think 7 LOCKS instead.

This can not be read until ALL 7 Seals are opened up, so with each Seal Jesus is saying what is ABOUT TO BEFALL MANKIND !! As soon as the Seals are all opened up. 

The First Seal means the Anti-Christ goes forth Conquering, well, we know he rules for 42 months and hes a ruthless tyrant, so hes going to be conquering for all 42 months, not just at the start of his kingdom.

The Second Seal shows his planned attack angle, he DECEIVES via Peace just as Dan. 8:25 says (He destroys MANY by Peace). Thus in Seal number 2 it states that he TAKES PEACE AWAY, which shows him a a deceiver. He takes away Peace via the Red Horse, which also means he BRINGS WAR over a 42 month period of time.

The 3rd Seal (Black Horse)  is Famine that his Wars bring over the same 42 month period of time, he also makes you buy and sell via the Mark of he Beast, thus many will die of starvation of his 42 month reign, but Famines are often the results of major wars.

The 4th Seal is of course the Death and Sickness this tyrants will will cause over his 42 month rule, its thus the Pale Green Horse. 

The 5th Seal is tied in also, its the Martyrs he kills over a 42 month period of time, this all starts on the Day of the Lord event. The one which the 6th Seal Describes, which actually hits in Rev. 8. via the asteroid strike. Thus the 6th Seal is Prophetic in nature also, only at the 7th Seal does Judgment actually start, thus the SILENCE in Heaven. 

The Four Horses represents the Anti-Christs 42 month rule of tyranny, and each DESCRIBES that 42 month rule. 

Beasts 42 Month Rule

1. He Conquers 2 Brings War 3. Famine 4. Death and Sickness. 

[Charlie744]

RM, I have to mention..  thank you very much for all the information but...

at this time, I feel we are running a race and you have already finished while I am waiting for the gun to go off’

I must take baby steps - I can not begin to see what you see..  I am at the “arithmetic” level and you are trying to teach me calculus II... 

Best wishes... I will look at your two posts after I take my test this afternoon... it’s multiplication using 2 numbers X 2 numbers (24 X 15).... I think I got this though! Charlie