Why can’t the CHURCH be in part of the 70th week?

[Spock]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

I never said what is in bold red above....never.  In fact if you go back over my recent posts, I said the 1st trumpet is released after the abomination of desolation, not the 7th trumpet.   Here is what you did say: "So why can’t the 6th seal be released right at the abomination of desolation? "

You see, I know the 7th trumpet sounds to MARK the moment of the abomination. So when you are saying "abomination" you are really saying, "7th trumpet." Spock, no one can find "abomination" in Revelation is associating with desolation as Daniel and Jesus put it. John did not see it in the vision and so did not write of it. However, we CAN find it because Jesus told those in Judea to flee when the SEE IT, and that fleeing is in 12:6. Make no mistake, verse 12:6 is only going to be a second or two after the abomination. If you back up verse by verse looking for the abomination, you won't find it - but what you CAN find is a marker: the 7th trumpet. 

No, my friend, Rev. 12:5 is not the rapture. That is human imagination gone to seed. It is worse than imagining the rapture when JOHN was called up in  chapter 4. Please show us any words that related to 1 Thes. 4. Israel gave birth to the Messiah, and the Messiah gave birth to the church. Sorry, the great crowd too large to number (the raptured church) will have already been in heaven for 3.5 years! And now you have the church here for 3.5 years of God's wrath! You know better!

I agree again with you, the raptured church is rev 7:9-17...

I agree, that occurs immediately after the 6th seal.

i agree, rev 12:6 very well could be immediately after the abomination

so far, we agree on a lot.....

I think where we might disagree is the timing of the 6th seal.

you have 6th seal just before Daniel 70th week begins, just before the covenant being confirmed

i have said, “I’m not sure where the 6th seal is released....I think it may be where you say, but I have reached out on this thread looking for people to give me evidence from the word that the rapture HAS TO PRECEDE the covenant being confirmed. So far, I’ve not seen the evidence I need to make me say, “ahhhhhh, yes, that is my missing link.....”

So, for now, I will continue to see two possibilities for the 6th seal rapture.....right around the abomination or maybe you are right....right before covenant being confirmed. 
 

Do you have any better evidence to convince me the 6th seal rapture has to be before covenant confirmation? If so, I’m all ears and eyes. 
spock

[iamlamad]

Just now, Spock said:

I agree again with you, the raptured church is rev 7:9-17...

I agree, that occurs immediately after the 6th seal.

i agree, rev 12:6 very well could be immediately after the abomination

so far, we agree on a lot.....

I think where we might disagree is the timing of the 6th seal.

you have 6th seal just before Daniel 70th week begins, just before the covenant being confirmed

i have said, “I’m not sure where the 6th seal is released....I think it may be where you say, but I have reached out on this thread looking for people to give me evidence from the word that the rapture HAS TO PRECEDE the covenant being confirmed. So far, I’ve not seen the evidence I need to make me say, “ahhhhhh, yes, that is my missing link.....”

So, for now, I will continue to see two possibilities for the 6th seal rapture.....right around the abomination or maybe you are right....right before covenant being confirmed. 
 

Do you have any better evidence to convince me the 6th seal rapture has to be before covenant confirmation? If so, I’m all ears and eyes. 
spock

Someone once said, "show me a verse saying the 70th week comes right after the rapture!" I told him, sorry, there IS no such verse. Sure, we would love to have verses that are "cut and dried." There are few such verses in the bible concerning end times.  I base some of my belief on the fact that Revelation is extremely chronological. Others don't believe this so cannot use it for any kind of argument. In other words, when I find the abomination is very close to 12:6, then I am forced to believe that the first half of the week will come before 12:6. Since God spoke and TOLD me I could find the entire 70th week "clearly marked," and that the beginning, midpoint and end will all be marked with the same marker, I am very confident that the 70th week is marked with 7's. Others, it seems, have zero faith in what God spoke to me. Well, that is on them, not on me: I have been faithful to tell others what God has spoken to me. 

This is not rocket science! The 6th seal is after the 5th and before the 7th. You can take that to the bank, for John himself numbered these seals. Since seal 5 is for the martyrs of the church age, and since we are not at seal 6 yet, the start of judgment, the church is at seal 5 as more martyrs are killed and waiting for seal 6 and the start of judgment. Since this judgment will be with His wrath, the rapture must come before seal 6. 

I suspect only ten days between the 6th seal and the 7th that starts the week. 

You really don't have to doubt where the 6th seal is or will be: it is going to be SOON, immediately after the rapture.  I don't think you will find any "missing link. Many here think I am the weakest link, but I have confidence in what I believe. 

Did you ever wonder why Jesus jumped from church age and "the end is not yet" right over any confirmation and landed right at the midpoint abomination?  Did you ever wonder why John does not really tell us where the week begins? I am convinced it will be done in secret. No one will know the exact date. People will only find out when the trumpet judgments begin. 

One thing is for certain, MOVE the sixth seal from its place between the 5th and 7th, and your theory will be proven wrong. 

[Spock]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Someone once said, "show me a verse saying the 70th week comes right after the rapture!" I told him, sorry, there IS no such verse. Sure, we would love to have verses that are "cut and dried." There are few such verses in the bible concerning end times.  I base some of my belief on the fact that Revelation is extremely chronological. Others don't believe this so cannot use it for any kind of argument. In other words, when I find the abomination is very close to 12:6, then I am forced to believe that the first half of the week will come before 12:6. Since God spoke and TOLD me I could find the entire 70th week "clearly marked," and that the beginning, midpoint and end will all be marked with the same marker, I am very confident that the 70th week is marked with 7's. Others, it seems, have zero faith in what God spoke to me. Well, that is on them, not on me: I have been faithful to tell others what God has spoken to me. 

This is not rocket science! The 6th seal is after the 5th and before the 7th. You can take that to the bank, for John himself numbered these seals. Since seal 5 is for the martyrs of the church age, and since we are not at seal 6 yet, the start of judgment, the church is at seal 5 as more martyrs are killed and waiting for seal 6 and the start of judgment. Since this judgment will be with His wrath, the rapture must come before seal 6. 

I suspect only ten days between the 6th seal and the 7th that starts the week. 

You really don't have to doubt where the 6th seal is or will be: it is going to be SOON, immediately after the rapture.  I don't think you will find any "missing link. Many here think I am the weakest link, but I have confidence in what I believe. 

Did you ever wonder why Jesus jumped from church age and "the end is not yet" right over any confirmation and landed right at the midpoint abomination?  Did you ever wonder why John does not really tell us where the week begins? I am convinced it will be done in secret. No one will know the exact date. People will only find out when the trumpet judgments begin. 

One thing is for certain, MOVE the sixth seal from its place between the 5th and 7th, and your theory will be proven wrong. 

I will admit without reservation that I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT, and that the 6th seal precedes the mysterious covenant confirmation. 

I know one dear brother attempted to pinpoint the covenant and actually thought it was the Iran Nuclear Pact signed IN 2016 or 2017,  I think...by the 5+1 nations and Iran. The latter promising they won’t build WMD while the six nations remove the bank freezes and shower Iran with a boatload of money. 

As for me, I still am looking for the covenant being confirmed and wonder if Trump’s deal of the century and these subsequent treaties between Israel and these Arab nations are playing into this coming covenant.  But the bigger wonder I have is....WILL I EVEN SEE IT HAPPEN?  If I do see it, then maybe the rapture and 6th seal is right at the abomination. Stay tuned....
 

like I said iamlamad, I hope you are right...we shall see, won’t we?  You are a great brother in Christ, a great Ambassador for Christ,  and someone I truly am honored to call my friend.  

spock

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Spock said:

I will admit without reservation that I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT, and that the 6th seal precedes the mysterious covenant confirmation. 

I know one dear brother attempted to pinpoint the covenant and actually thought it was the Iran Nuclear Pact signed IN 2016 or 2017,  I think...by the 5+1 nations and Iran. The latter promising they won’t build WMD while the six nations remove the bank freezes and shower Iran with a boatload of money. 

As for me, I still am looking for the covenant being confirmed and wonder if Trump’s deal of the century and these subsequent treaties between Israel and these Arab nations are playing into this coming covenant.  But the bigger wonder I have is....WILL I EVEN SEE IT HAPPEN?  If I do see it, then maybe the rapture and 6th seal is right at the abomination. Stay tuned....
 

like I said iamlamad, I hope you are right...we shall see, won’t we?  You are a great brother in Christ, a great Ambassador for Christ,  and someone I truly am honored to call my friend.  

spock

There is only one verse in the entire bible that I know of speaking of the confirming of the 7 year covenant. Jesus never mentioned it. Revelation is silent on it. That is why I am convinced it will be done in secret. I try not to pay much attention to current events and try to match them. People get goofy doing that. We both know the rapture is on the horizon. Don't hold your breath waiting for this confirmation! It is possible it is trumps "peace plan," but I HOPE he will not be involved in splitting Israel up into two nations. Both He and the US will suffer if he does. 

I am relatively sure I will see it, and I am 74 years. 

Thanks, FRIEND!  I always enjoyed Spock's character. I doubt if he was born again. 

[Charlie744]

Iamlamad, just below is a cut / paste from your most recent post. Would you mind identifying the “only verse” that speaks of the 7 year covenant?

 Thank you!

“There is only one verse in the entire bible that I know of speaking of the confirming of the 7 year covenant. Jesus never mentioned it. Revelation is silent on it.”

[Marilyn C]

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[Marilyn C]

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[The Light]

On 9/12/2020 at 7:10 PM, DeighAnn said:

Thank you for making it possible for me to clarify though

I don't know what point you were trying to make but the Lord does NOT come as a thief in the night to those who know His Word.  

So does the GOODMAN know His word? He is going to come in an hour that you think not, whether you like it or not. What you believe has nothing to do with what is going to happen.

Matt 24

⁴² Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

⁴³ But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

⁴⁴ Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

 

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Let's go through it all once again.  And let's do it GODS WAY this time.  LINE UPON LINE.  
It would be great if you would to so we could see where the division is coming about.  If this doesn't help We could go through 2nd Thess as it really would help clear it up.  

I don't believe I am the one struggling here.

 

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1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
A new covenant church.  The church that the gentiles are grafted into.  Once grafted in have become the seed of Abraham, Israel.  Not separate, not on their own.  Not special.  Not to be wise in their own conceits because the natural branches are to be grafted back in.  Does God tell us anywhere that BEFORE THEN He will be doing anything special with the Church?  No.  The only thing going to happen is when the fullness of the gentiles comes in, the blindness comes off.  The Lord never mentions that there is a removal of the church prior to that.  \

 

Maybe you will get it if you study the Jewish wedding. The Lord is coming for His bride and then the door is shut. Maybe the five wise virgins and the 5 foolish virgins will help.

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1 Thessalonians 1:2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
Patience of hope, because we remember God told those "grafted in watch it or you will be cut off to0"  never said "you will be taken to heaven before they are grafted back in".    If He had you would no doubt put it forth. 

Maybe you should study the gathering in Mark 13. Study the coming of Jesus in Revelation 14.

 

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1 Thessalonians 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
WHO ARE WE BEING TOLD IS AN ELECTION OF GOD?  THE GENTILE CHURCH.  AND WHERE ARE THE ELECTION FOR THE TRIBULATION?  RIGHT HERE ON EARTH BEING GIVEN UP FOR 10 DAY TRIAL.  lets make this point number 1.  

1 Thessalonians 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

Great. And who is also told they are the elect of God.

Isaiah 45

⁴ For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

 

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1 Thessalonians 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit.
Followers of US, the Word received IN MUCH AFFLICTION.  We know that Gods Wrath doesn't fall on US, SO becoming believers in Christ keeps you from wrath.  (note the lack of need to go anywhere pre trib?  also note that much Tribulation/affliction comes along with it. 

 

I also noted the lack of need to get an ice cream cone at the Dairy Queen, which proves absolutely nothing.

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thlipsis 2347  persecution, affliction, distress, tribulation 

Does God seem to have any problem with His own going through tribulation and affliction and distress and persecution?  NO, NONE, NOT AT ALL, Even tells us how it helps us.  Just as it helped OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR.

Point number 2  God tells us we will go through much tribulation

 

1 Thessalonians 1:7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.

1 Thessalonians 1:8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.

1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
God gives us the gospel armor and power over all our enemies  and we are to serve  Point 3 I believe

1 Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
We have already been delivered from the wrath by belief.  Having been delivered from the wrath TO COME.  Gods wrath is coming, just not ON US. Not word one about "by coming before and flying you back to heaven".  No need, we have ALREADY BEEN DELIVERED FROM IT. 

1 Thessalonians 2:1 For yourselves, brethren, know our entrance in unto you, that it was not in vain:

1 Thessalonians 2:2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.

1 Thessalonians 2:3 For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile:

1 Thessalonians 2:4 But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.

God TRIES our hearts.  Would God remove the church not trying their hearts?  NO because we were just told HE DOES

1 Thessalonians 2:5 For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness:

1 Thessalonians 2:6 Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.

1 Thessalonians 2:7 But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children:

1 Thessalonians 2:8 So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.

1 Thessalonians 2:9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.

1 Thessalonians 2:10 Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:

1 Thessalonians 2:11 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children,

1 Thessalonians 2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
Not who will be taking you to, but called you unto

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

1 Thessalonians 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

Followers of the churches of God, grafted in, now seed of Abraham

Great. And when are the 12 tribes across the earth to be grafted in? Timing is everything.

Do you have your new body yet? Aren't you a believer and a member of the New Covenant Church? Have you gotten your new body yet? Timing is everything.

 

 

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1 Thessalonians 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

1 Thessalonians 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
 

1 Thessalonians 2:17 But we, brethren, being taken from you for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavoured the more abundantly to see your face with great desire.

1 Thessalonians 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.

1 Thessalonians 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
Notice the LACK OF any reference to 2 comings.  Paul just speaks of the one here.  As is done EVERYWHERE throughout the Word.  If indeed he believed in two comings he no doubt would have given this clarification because God is not the author of confusion.  The very lack of mention causes confusion because we have a theory that adds one to the Word of God.  

Ummm.

1 Thes 5

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

 

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1 Thessalonians 2:20 For ye are our glory and joy.

1 Thessalonians 3:1 Wherefore when we could no longer forbear, we thought it good to be left at Athens alone;

1 Thessalonians 3:2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:

1 Thessalonians 3:3 That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.

WE ARE APPOINTED UNTO, YOU GOT IT, TRIBULATIONS.  WHO IS BEING SPOKEN TO?  THE NEW COVENANT CHURCH.  

All you are doing is proving my point. The Church is in their time of affliction. After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and the confirming of the covenant, God will turn His attention to the people of Daniel for the 70th week.

 

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1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end He may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
Our hearts need to be stablished unblameable in holiness, and that is at the end when
the coming of our Lord with all his saints.  No mention of 2 comings.  If there were 2 comings we would have been told to which one he is referring.  God is not the author of confusion.

No mention of Zuzu's petals either. Which proves nothing.

It does not appear that you understand these verses.

1 Thes 5

⁴ But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

⁵ Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Matt 24

⁴² Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

⁴³ But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

⁴⁴ Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

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1 Thessalonians 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
There are ways we ought to walk to please God, and we are to abound more and more

1 Thessalonians 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

1 Thessalonians 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

1 Thessalonians 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

1 Thessalonians 4:5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

1 Thessalonians 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us His holy Spirit.

1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

1 Thessalonians 4:10 And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;

1 Thessalonians 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;

1 Thessalonians 4:12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
We are about to be told about what happens when this flesh dies, or why we are to rejoice at a death and morn at a birth. Don't lose sight of the subject.  Don't let the tempter come and tempt. 

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
BIG HUGE IMPORTANT 
 

Do you understand this? I don't think so.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

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JESUS DIED AND ROSE, EVEN SO THEM,
THEM BEING THOSE WHO HAVE DIED IN THE FLESH

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
ONCE again the coming of the Lord. ONCE again, no mention of 2 so no pointing out which one it would be.  God is not the author of confusion.

 1 Thes 5

But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

 

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1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Get rid of the theory and ALL THIS IS CRYSTAL CLEAR.  REMAINS CRYSTAL CLEAR.  THERE IS NO CONFUSION.  WE KNOW WHEN AND WHO. THAT IS WHY HIS COMING/RETURN IS NEVER EVER "CLARIFIED".  IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE.  HE IS RETURING AS LORD OF LORD AND KING OF KINGS AT THE TRUMP OF GOD.  

Exactly, the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, at the trump of God. The bridegroom will come for the bride.

What happens at the coming of Jesus for the gathering, just before the Day of the Lord at the 6th seal?

Matt 24

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

If you can't understand the difference between the trump of God and the last trump, you should study up.

If you can't understand the difference between the Lord Himself coming and the Lord sending His angels I'm not sure what course of action you should take.

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1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
These words ARE THE COMFORT.  If there were to be a pre trip, there would most certainly be THOSE WORDS OF COMFORT FOUND HERE.  But again, not a word of clarity.  Not a hint that it needs to be clarified.  

The Church is told to comfort one another with these words.

 

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1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
Nothing needs to be cleared up?  Nothing needs to be spoken of as to time and seasons?  If there were a Rap trip happening THE TIMES AND SEASONS WOULD DEFINITELY NEED TO BE WRITTEN ABOUT  HERE AND IF NOT HERE, THEN SOMEWHERE. ANYWHERE.

Why doesn't Paul say of the time and season, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. If He is talking about the coming of Jesus happening once, wouldn't time and season be the proper English?

 

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1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
Here we go YET AGAIN.  The day of the Lord with out ANY reference to 'ANOTHER DAY OF THE LORD COMING'  IT IS NEVER SPOKEN OF BECAUSE IT ISN'T. 

1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
They SHALL SAY, FOLLOWED BY SUDDEN DESTRUCTION

1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
We are in the light knowing that Christ returns AFTER the workings of the wicked one.  We know the witnesses will lie dead in the streets 3 1/2 days.  NO WE ARE NOT IN THE DARK.  

1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Who is of the night?  Who is of darkness?  Not us.  

 

Paul is talking about the coming of the Lord at the day of the Lord. That day will not take them by surprise. But we also know that the Goodman will not know when He is coming. Two different comings. Times and seasons.

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1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

1 Thessalonians 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
What will it be like?  Like the days of Noah, eating and drinking

1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
So if they of the night will be here and we are not to be doing as they are doing, THEN WE WILL BE HERE.  WHO IS WE?  This new covenant church to which the gentiles are grafted in. 

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
WE were just told we have ALREADY been saved through our faith and that WRATH doesn't fall on us, but it falls on THEM

1 Thessalonians 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

1 Thessalonians 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

1 Thessalonians 5:12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;

1 Thessalonians 5:13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.

1 Thessalonians 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.

1 Thessalonians 5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

1 Thessalonians 5:16 Rejoice evermore.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing.

1 Thessalonians 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

1 Thessalonians 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.

1 Thessalonians 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Need it be pointed out again? 

No, I am fully aware that you don't understand.

 

 

 

Quote

The THEORY tells us that we don't need to be perfected, suffer tribulation, have our hearts tried, put on gospel armor, that we are not of the seed of Abraham and that the only way the Wrath of God can be come upon the world is if the church is no longer here.    

Eyes and ears.  

 

It is the 12 tribes that are raptured before the day of the Lord. The 144,000 first fruits are proof of this harvest.

Maybe you should study the spring barley harvest, the early summer wheat harvest and the fall fruit harvest.

Edited September 15, 2020 by The Light

[DeighAnn]

32 minutes ago, The Light said:

So does the GOODMAN know His word? He is going to come in an hour that you think not, whether you like it or not. What you believe has nothing to do with what is going to happen.

Matt 24

⁴² Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Neither do you.  What you believe has nothing to do with what is going to happen.  But what I do know is Paul in the letter to the Thessalonians tells us 3 times that it won't be before the wicked is revealed.  That Christs coming will destroy Satan.  I have enough common sense to know that means Christ is coming after the workings of Satan.  I know the time was shortened so you are correct I don't know.  But I do know it is AFTER SATAN.  I've seen the workings around what is so clearly written getting good honest Christians to question what they can read to any fourth grader and they will tell you what is written.  But I noticed you didn't lay out GODS WORD once again.  Here come yours though.  

 

37 minutes ago, The Light said:

 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

NOTICE THE THIEF IS COMING TO SUFFER THE HOUSE TO BE BROKEN UP???  GOT IT. NO EXCEPTIONS, its  COMING TO THE WHOLE WORLD.  Got to add times, divide the church, avoid death and judgment, not be perfected, not have tribulation,  not be of the seed of Abraham, not be grafted in but have your own root, receive the promises given for those who do but for things you don't do etc. 

 

42 minutes ago, The Light said:

Maybe you will get it if you study the Jewish wedding. The Lord is coming for His bride and then the door is shut. Maybe the five wise virgins and the 5 foolish virgins will help.

I will keep reading exact what is written because I have no need to search out alternatives to back up some theory that is nothing more than a different way to build the tower of babel.  I understand the virgins.  I could write that out line by line also WITHOUT changing the meaning.  

 

46 minutes ago, The Light said:

Maybe you should study the gathering in Mark 13. Study the coming of Jesus in Revelation 14.

Why?  There is no pre trib rap there either.

 

47 minutes ago, The Light said:

Great. And who is also told they are the elect of God.

Isaiah 45

⁴ For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

THAT'S WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING.  There is NO DIVISION.  Gentiles are grafted into ISRAEL.  All who take Christ are Abrahams seed, where Israel come from.   I got it, do you?  AS WE ARE ALL ONE, then we know that we are all going through the tribulation.  It's not rocket science.

 

51 minutes ago, The Light said:

I also noted the lack of need to get an ice cream cone at the Dairy Queen, which proves absolutely nothing.

Typical.   I do understand that the thought of affliction or persecution or tribulation or distress is just too much to handle for some.  

 

52 minutes ago, The Light said:

Great. And when are the 12 tribes across the earth to be grafted in? Timing is everything.

Do you have your new body yet? Aren't you a believer and a member of the New Covenant Church? Have you gotten your new body yet? Timing is everything.

NO ONE except those who are alive and remain when Christ returns to the earth as Lord of lord and King of kings will received their new body except if they die.  ONE TIME and only ONE TIME will there ever be a TIME when those who are alive and remain are changed.  IT ISN'T happening twice.  Christ isn't coming twice, the dead aren't resurrecting twice, and those who are alive and remain being changed isn't going to happen twice.  HOW DO I KNOW?  I READ THE BOOK AND DIDN'T ADD TO IT.  

AND only SOME OF THE BRANCHES were broken off.  I do know when the 144,000 eyes are opened.  

 

1 hour ago, The Light said:

All you are doing is proving my point. The Church is in their time of affliction. After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and the confirming of the covenant, God will turn His attention to the people of Daniel for the 70th week.

THE CHURCH IS IN THE TIME OF TEACHING.  THE TEST COMES NEXT.  AND WE ALL TAKE THE TEST.  NO EXCEPTIONS.  HENCE WHY YOU NEED GOSPEL ARMOR.  TO KNOW THE SEASONS.  TO KNOW WHAT TO DO WHEN YOU HEAR PEACE AND SAFETY.  BECAUSE WE WILL BE HERE WHEN THEY ARE SAYING IT.  ALL THE SEED OF ABRAHAM WILL BE HERE FOR IT THAT INCLUDES CHURCH AND SHEEP AND WHOMSOEVER WOULD. 

 

1 hour ago, The Light said:

and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Do you see it?  Do not be deceiv3ed by any man.  Do you see it?

 

1 hour ago, The Light said:

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Yes, this is most true.  Another reason no pre trib.  

 

1 hour ago, The Light said:

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

If you can't understand the difference between the trump of God and the last trump, you should study up.

If you can't understand the difference between the Lord Himself coming and the Lord sending His angels I'm not what course of action you should take.

I understand them perfectly AS WRITTEN IN THE WORD.   Have I given a different meaning?  You think the trump of God comes before the last trump?  I don't add an entirely different day to the two.  I WOULD IF GOD SAID SOMETHING ANYTHING GAVE ANY SORT OF INSTRUCTIONS OF SUCH AN EVENT BUT JUST AS ON THE ENTIRE SUBJECT, GOD GIVES NOTHING.  JESUS NEVER SAYS A WORD.  NO BEFORE THE CROSS NOT AFTER THE CROSS.  THE ONE YOU SAY IS COMING NEVER MENTIONS IT.  

But let me get this straight.  You say the LORD HIMSELF COMES PRE TRIB, but not all the way and gathers the church,  but then doesn't come but sends His angels?  What do His angels do with those they have gathered?  And if there is no gathering before the wicked is revealed then how does He "get the church"?    Yet, the Lord coming and sending His angels to gather the elect at the same time is just to far out there.  Huh.

 

1 hour ago, The Light said:

The Church is told to comfort one another with these words.

yES, but not with a pre trib rap

 

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Why doesn't Paul say of the time and season, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. If He is talking about the coming of Jesus happening once, wouldn't time and season be the proper English?

Now that is really reaching.  Was it written in proper English?  No it was translated into.  

 

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Quote

1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
They SHALL SAY, FOLLOWED BY SUDDEN DESTRUCTION

1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
We are in the light knowing that Christ returns AFTER the workings of the wicked one.  We know the witnesses will lie dead in the streets 3 1/2 days.  NO WE ARE NOT IN THE DARK.  

1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Who is of the night?  Who is of darkness?  Not us.  

 

Paul is talking about the coming of the Lord at the day of the Lord. That day will not take them by surprise. But we also know that the Goodman will not know when He is coming. Two different comings. Times and seasons.

Who is saying PEACE AND SAFETY?  THEY.  WHO ARE THEY?  NOT US.  BUT FOR US TO HEAR, HERE WE MUST BE.

  NOT A "PART" OF US BECAUSE US IS ONE.  A MANY MEMBERED BODY.  NOT A PARTIAL BODY will remain.  Not some of the lump will remain.  Not some of the root will remain.  Not some of the branches will remain.  IF SOME will have a 10 day trial, then ALL will be here.  

But like I've said before  THERE IS NOTHING OFF LIMITS TO THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN PRE TRIB RAP BECAUSE THEY DON'T THINK THEY WILL BE HERE TO BE DECEIVED by anything or anyone.    HOW DECEIVING IS THAT?

 

1 hour ago, The Light said:

No, I am fully aware that you don't understand.

BUT  still not for nothing  can/will do it.  I ask and ask and ask but only get a piece here with an EXPLANATION followed by a verse there with an EXPLANATION etc.  How about some line on line putting what is claimed by the theory to the test of CONTEXT.

 

1 hour ago, The Light said:

It is the 12 tribes that are raptured before the day of the Lord. The 144,000 first fruits are proof of this harvest.

Maybe you should study the spring barley harvest, the early summer wheat harvest and the fall fruit harvest.

I don't need to because there is no pre trib rapture.  NO ONE GATHERS UNTIL AFTER THAT WICKED REVEALED OR CHRIST WOULD HAVE SAID DON'T WORRY ABOUT BEING DECEIVED BECAUSE YOU WONT BE HERE.  Don't worry about what is coming in the end times because you wont be here.  I don't even get why any pre trib raps study the end times as they wont be here.  It shouldn't matter to them what happens or when because they wont be here.  They don't need any gospel armor cause they wont be here.  Doesn't matter the times or the seasons cause they wont be here.  Doesn't matter if it is day or night cause they wont be here. Doesn't matter if they have enough oil for their lamps cause they wont be here.  Doesn't matter if they go buy and sell cause they wont be here.  Doesn't matter if they take the mark of the beast cause they wont be here.  Doesn't matter if they read the book of Daniel or Revelation cause they wont be here.  So what are you doing here?  Trying to make it so that NO ONE WILL BE HERE?   

GOD IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION.  

Try to notice what is COMPLETELY missing, not just here but EVERYWHERE.

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 
Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 

[Diaste]

On 9/3/2020 at 10:18 AM, Spock said:

Although some here, Charlie, Diaste, and Retro to name a few, believe the 70 weeks have run their course, I’ve never thrown my hat in that arena. 

If I ever gave that impression I'm appalled at my self. I have said I don't understand how there could be such a gap but the evidence points to a long gap and an unfulfilled week. Matt 24 points to a longer time than 3.5 years. In my investigation it seems to me the two witnesses will dominate the first half of the week and the beast will dominate the second. It's quite clear there are 42 months left to be fulfilled, at a minimum, in the Revelation. From the Gospels we find the time before the A of D is related and near to the A of D and the Return of Jesus, and is called the beginning of sorrows.

Jesus tells us to look to Daniel for the information and understanding of the A of D. That includes a period of one week, or 7 years.

Maybe I need to communicate better.