My take on some of the arguments to use when debating muslims since I have background in islam

[Ervin P]

Some Muslims who might “know” the Bible might say something like: Show me in the Bible where Jesus said I am God and you must worship me and I’ll become a Christian.
Ok, then you can quote from the Bible the following:

John 8:58, NIV: "Very truly I tell you,' Jesus answered, 'before Abraham was born, I am!'"
With that you can explain them that the Pharisee where trying to trick Jesus through questions about law in order to I think arrest Him which is why He gave truthful answers, but in a way so that they couldn’t have Him arrested straight away. Jesus was arrested when He knew the time was right. In connection with that you can quote the following:
Matthew 22:15-22
Then the Pharisees went and plotted how to entangle him in his words. And they sent their disciples to him, along with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that you are true and teach the way of God truthfully, and you do not care about anyone's opinion, for you are not swayed by appearances. Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” But Jesus, aware of their malice, said,“Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? Show me the coin for the tax.”And they brought him a denarius. And Jesus said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” They said, “Caesar's.” Then he said to them, “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” When they heard it, they marveled. And they left him and went away.

The other thing that it’s good to make a muslim pay attention to is about how in the Old Testament days they had to sacrifice animals, so pretty much explaining that you had to shed blood to atone for sin, which is what explains Jesus Christ’s coming to Earth, to be That Perfect Sacrifice.

Another thing they might say is that quran is the best written book in the world that exists and that it’s so well written that it’s a miracle. In the quran it says that if the whole of mankind and Jin where to gather they wouldn’t be able to produce even one chapter like it (like the quran). Here is that verse:
{ Say: ‘If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all their strength in aiding one another.’ } The Quran 17:88

Now, I know the quran pretty well which you might have guessed by now and the above is not true. I have personally compared the Bible with the quran and to me the Bible is the best written book in the world( one of the reasons how I recognised the Bible as true), actually the Bible is so much better written then the quran that the quran doesn’t even begin to qualify to compare with the Bible. To that they might say something like: But you have to know Arabic in order to see how beautiful the quran is. And my answer to that would be that I have had once a muslim from Somalia who knew both English 
and Arabic tell me that it’s the same in Arabic as it’s in English( this is actual true, once when I asked this man, that’s what he said). But even without that you can see for yourself that that statement is far from truth.

Another thing they might say is that nothing else n the Quran has ever been changed( in Arabic), and I know that’s not true because the so called quran alone muslims have changed it. quran alone Muslims are a muslim denomination who reject the traditional islams second source of teaching called hadiths ( hadits are narrations that are the second source of teachings in sunni/Shia, etc islam). The quran alone muslims have taken out the names of so called surah’s( names of chapters in the quran) and they have put instead of the names of surah’s like chapter 1,2,3, etc. if they don’t believe that then you can ask them to google free minds quran PDF.

Or maybe if any of you meet a muslim and if he is open to challenge, then just show him this post.

Thanks

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Ervin P
Altered the title so it’s more acurate

[Ervin P]

Actually the altered quran you can view if you google the monotheist group quran PDF. Not free minds( free minds is connected to it).

Also, if a muslim who might “ know” a bit about the Bible asks you: Are there any contradictions in the Bible? Don’t say none whatsoever, as in nothing like it, because they are going to produce you with all these examples of so called contradictions. Instead you might say that there are so called seeming contradictions, and be ready to give them answers to those so called contradictions. Because if you say there’s nothing like it in the Bible, they might not be interested in further discussion.

Thanks

Edited September 11, 2020 by Ervin P
Changed from monotheistic to monothei..

[Debp]

@Ervin P Thanks for giving us some input on this subject.   G!ad you came to know Jesus Christ as your personal Savior!

[Not me]

@Ervin P

Hi, and welcome;

I’ve been listening to alot of debates on YouTube from a gentlemen named Christian Prince.. Was wondering if you might know of him and what your thoughts might be concerning him.....He’s a fluent Arabic speaker....

Be blessed as you get to know Christ Jesus...

A follower of His, Not me 

[Ervin P]

8 minutes ago, Not me said:

@Ervin P

Hi, and welcome;

I’ve been listening to alot of debates on YouTube from a gentlemen named Christian Prince.. Was wondering if you might know of him and what your thoughts might be concerning him.....He’s a fluent Arabic speaker....

Be blessed as you get to know Christ Jesus...

A follower of His, Not me 

Hi Not me. I haven’t heard of him and I personally don’t speak Arabic. I speak English obviously and what I would call souther Slavic language( Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian, Montenegrin/ all the same language but they call it differently).

I do have background in islam since my father was of muslim heritage( believer but  not practising apart from fasting on ramadan). I am also familiar with buddhist teachings, and others like new age and what not. These days I’ll normally tell people that I think are ok with me telling them that that if they want the truth about God ( and His Only begotten Son) that the Bible is the only book there is, or some books that explain the Bible and that that’s it.

 

 Thanks 

 

[Not me]

4 hours ago, Ervin P said:

Hi Not me. I haven’t heard of him and I personally don’t speak Arabic. I speak English obviously and what I would call souther Slavic language( Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian, Montenegrin/ all the same language but they call it differently).

I do have background in islam since my father was of muslim heritage( believer but  not practising apart from fasting on ramadan). I am also familiar with buddhist teachings, and others like new age and what not. These days I’ll normally tell people that I think are ok with me telling them that that if they want the truth about God ( and His Only begotten Son) that the Bible is the only book there is, or some books that explain the Bible and that that’s it.

 

 Thanks 

 

I’m sure it is and He is !  

Was just curious, Islam is a curiosity of mine??.....I don’t speak Arabic myself but he’s a Christian Apologist on YouTube that debates Muslim’s in English.. But when they throw the “you don’t understand because you don’t speak Arabic” at him it’s quite funny when he starts speaking better Arabic than most of the callers... I’ve learned a great deal on what Muslims believe and what the Koran actually says...Anyways keep pressing into Christ as He leads us back to Himself...

Be blessed, Not me 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Not me

[other one]

Hi Ervin,    I have spent a lot of time studying Islam oddly starting just after the Federal Building Bombing in Oklahoma City....    too long of a story to get into here.

The things that have let me talk to most Muslims is to not tell them they are wrong as much as that they are misinformed.   Usually starting out by telling them that Mohammad was a very smart person.   And I really think he was.....   when the entity first met him in that cave he was convinced it was a demon...   but alas like Adam and Abraham he listened to his wife and let her convince him that it was an angel from God himself....    and like the other happenings where men listened to their wives the world went over the edge into a deep hole both physically and spiritually and the devil won over some of us again.

 

Using Bukhari's hadith you can pretty much put the Koran in the proper order that it was given to Mohammad and the chronological order it should be written in...   making it east to understand that when Mohammad was living and working in Mecca he was using a peaceful way of communicating to people and it simply did not work....    then show them the changes that were made in things where those parts of the Koran was given after he moved to Medina and built his army....   and by the use of abrogation those writings that were discrepancies from other writings actually replaced them because God changed his mind...    By the time you get to that point there is a dividing in the road.  If the person understands that Islam is a theocracy given to us by the devil and they should reject it, or he takes the other rout in believing what was given to Mohammad was actually from God and not the devil and you have just radicalized your worst enemy for that abrogation turned Islam from a peaceful thing into a vicious war mongering disaster.

It all comes down to whether Jesus is what he says he is, or is he just an average or better good person. Talking with them keep the subject about Jesus and who he really is, but care should be taken in making a Muslim question the true story behind Islam for if he takes the wrong road in his/her study he will be your worst enemy.     Also keep in mind that the Koran and Sharia Law makes it impossible for a real Muslim to be your friend.

There are two states of existence that Islam and individual Muslims can be in.     Once the entire world is believers or at least subject to Allah through the subjugation to Sharia Law there is peace and Islam is a so called peaceful religion....   otherwise it is in a state of war.

[FluffyBunny.]

 

I think the best argument against Islam is the fact, that there is no evidence for the existence of Allah or that the Quran is a book from a God.

 

When you point out the lack of evidence, then you usually get one of the three responses:

 

1. You get an argument from ignorance or something that  is structured like this "I/You don´t know how the earth formed, how life formed, how humans formed, how the universe began etc, therefore a God had to exist to create the things that I can not explain". This argument fails, because our ignorance of reality can not be used as an excuse to invent Gods and magic as an explanation for the gaps in our knowledge.

Even if a God had to exist to create everything that we know, you will never be able to demonstrate that this God is Allah and not some other God from a different religion, so arguments like these are a complete failure.

 

2. Another popular "argument" is the appeal to the Quran. The Quran is supposed to be a perfect book from God, that is beautifully written, morally and scientifically perfect. However, this argument fails because the Quran contains scientific mistakes. For example according to the Quran, sperm is produced in the backbone (Sura 86:6-7). The first humans are supposedly created from clay (Sura 32:7-8), ignoring everything we know about evolution and pre homo-sapiens animals.This is scientifically illiterate. A God that is worth his salt, can not be scientifically illiterate.

The Quran is also morally corrupt, because it allows sex slavery (Sura 4:23-24)

 

3. Maybe someone will use  Quranic prophecies as evidence for the claim, that Allah is real or that the Quran is a book written by a God. I mean, how can someone write a book with prophecies that were fulfilled 1400 years later?

The problem is, that there is not a single specific prophecy in the Quran. Sure, if you are allowed to interpret the Quran, then you will find a ton of prophecies. But I can probably find prophecies in Moby Dick aswell, if I am allowed to use my imagination. A fulfilled prophecy has value only IF, it is specific. A prophecy only has value, if there is a only a single instance, in which that prophecy can be fulfilled. If there are multiple ways to fulfill a single prophecy, then this prophecy is worthless.

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by FluffyBunny.

[choir loft]

During my employment with a local college I often frequented the cafe/coffee shop.  

On one occasion I spotted four, count 'em four, Muslim students sitting at a table together.  I approached them and asked them the meaning of a passage I'd read in the Qur'an.  

Paraphrasing the passage it went something like; "if the apostle of Allah speaks, then you should do what he says."  My question to the Muslim students was, "who is the apostle of Allah?"   Was this person like the apostle Paul, Peter or some other?  Or is the Qur'an addressing the Prophet [pbuh] himself?

They did not know.

One of the Muslim men asked where I'd read the passage.  I told him the Qur'an.

They told me I shouldn't read the Qur'an because its too confusing.

True story.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

PS   I knew the identity of Allah's apostle when I asked the question.  I just wanted to know if they knew.   btw, it's Muhammad [pbuh].   The Prophet wore many hats, so to speak.

Edited January 14, 2021 by choir loft