The Jezebel Spirit and the Rapture

[WilliamL]

On 10/1/2020 at 6:12 PM, Keras said:

The Jerusalem made in heaven comes down to us, we do not ever go to heaven. Revelation 21:1-7

Only after the Millennium does it come down, only after a pure earth is created. But it exists in heaven NOW, as Paul tells us:

Gal. 4:26 ...the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Both verbs are in the present tense.

And Paul specifically tells us that we will "come" to the "heavenly Jerusalem," not a descended-to-earth one. I take him at his word, and don't put any spin on it.

Edited October 5, 2020 by WilliamL

[Keras]

9 hours ago, WilliamL said:

And Paul specifically tells us that we will "come" to the "heavenly Jerusalem," not a descended-to-earth one. I take him at his word, and don't put any spin on it.

Revelation 21:1 specifically says the New Jerusalem will come to the earth and goes on to say how the Lords people will then inhabit it. 

People going to heaven is never said to happen. God Himself and therefore heaven comes to dwell on earth.  AFTER the Millennium. 

[Biblican]

On 10/4/2020 at 6:00 PM, Keras said:

Nowhere does the Bible say people will go to and live in heaven. The 144,000 will be missionaries who will proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Proved by Isaiah 66:19

I did not 'misquote' John 3:13. Jesus said what He means and it is error to add to it. That no human will go to heaven, is also proved by John 17:15, John 7:34, John 8:21-23 and Revelation 5:10.

Noted; that Revelation 11:12 refers to the 2 Witnesses, who got killed. I believe Jesus Returns at that moment and they are resurrected and transported to Jerusalem, along with the rest of the GT martyrs. Revelation 20:4

We will have to agree to disagree. You are ignoring all the scriptures that refute your own version of what you want to believe.  This is how apostasy starts, when the apostle's words are ignored and replaced by man's opinions. Again, the point of my post is that we are to pray that we are worthy to escape the great tribulation . Jesus would not have said that if there was not a means of escape.

[Biblican]

18 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Lotta claims backed up by nada. Everything John saw after 4:1 are "things which must take place after these things." That is, it is all future from John's time; thus so is Chapter 12. Nothing in that chapter (other than any presumption added to it on your part) says that it contains any events of the past.

Your statement "The Philadelphians ... are the 144,000 represented by the two witnesses" is full of non-biblical presumptions.

I have learned that it's okay to use logic when you are interpreting scripture. I came to the conclusion that the Philadelphians are the 144,000, by recognizing that the Philadelphians are promised to be kept from the hout. The 144, 000 in turn are sealed for their protection. We see them in Rev. 9, We watch the two witnessess called up to heaven in Rev. 11:12. Then we see the 144, 000 in the first part of chapter 14, in a position of safety with Jesus and before God's throne. How did they get there? Were they among those who wee called up to heaven in Rev. 11:12?  The two witnesses are called candlesticks, candlesticks are churches. Ignoring vital clues like this can radically alter the meaning of the passages we are trying to decipher. The 144, 000 are seen in heaven  before the angel preaches the gospel because it will be impossible at that time to preach publicly and we are also shown that the mark is being implemented. So we see that the 144, 000 are protected from the hour of His judgment in 14:7. So it is logical to conclude that because the Philadelphians are promised protection, they are a match with the 144,000 and will be included in this group.  You are perfectly entitled to your opinion. Each one of us has to come to an understanding that we are comfortable with. But again, my post is about praying to be worthy to escape. Let's not neglect Jesus' command. It is obvious that those who obey Him will have this option of being protected from the hour, just like the 144,000.

Revelation is a dimensional book, and it contains elements that can apply to every generation. It does contain elements that can be interpreted historically as many scholars have noted. This is what they teach in a seminary, there are four basic methods of interpreting the book. John is being shown the things which will take place after, but there are also elements that have a basis in things that have happened in the past in order to further clarify things that are to happen in the future.  We have to remember that Revelation was written to encourage a persecuted church and the parable contained in Revelation 12 is designed to show the church the reason for her persecution.

[Biblican]

On 10/4/2020 at 1:50 PM, missmuffet said:

Jesus Christ will rapture the Church. People with the Jezebel spirit are going to remain on this earth until Jesus Christ comes back at the second coming. 

You are right. Hopefully the Jezebelians will be purified in the Lord's refining fire and be among the five virgins that Jesus sends His angels for when He returns. In the meantime we are all told to pray that we are worthy to escape.

[missmuffet]

2 hours ago, Biblican said:

You are right. Hopefully the Jezebelians will be purified in the Lord's refining fire and be among the five virgins that Jesus sends His angels for when He returns. In the meantime we are all told to pray that we are worthy to escape.

If a person is a born again Christian and is obedient to Christ they will go in the rapture. God gives everyone a choice. We have free will. A person is not sent to hell by God they send themselves to hell because of their unbelief. 

[Biblican]

6 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

If a person is a born again Christian and is obedient to Christ they will go in the rapture. God gives everyone a choice. We have free will. A person is not sent to hell by God they send themselves to hell because of their unbelief. 

Being obedient to Jesus is the key as you said. The scriptures are very specific that those who are infected with the Jezebel spirit will go through the tribulation unless they repent (Rev. 2:22). The Laodiceans will be spewed out of His mouth (Rev. 3:16). Only the Philadelphian remnant who has not succumbed to the errors in the other five churches is promised protection for the hour of God's judgment. It is extremely important to be able to recognize what those errors are and not partake of them. Jesus said we are to pray we are worthy to escape (Luke 21:36). He is saying by this that not all will be protected, only those whom God makes worthy and thus we need to humbly pray to be made part of that Philadelphian remnant. I know of "born again" Christians who are living with their boyfriends/girlfriends, indulging in unmarried sexual sin who think they will go in the rapture. That's part of Jezebel's deceptions and we need to be aware of the fact that God rewards obedience to His word.

                                                                                                                                  

[Biblican]

On 10/6/2020 at 12:41 AM, Keras said:

Revelation 21:1 specifically says the New Jerusalem will come to the earth and goes on to say how the Lords people will then inhabit it. 

People going to heaven is never said to happen. God Himself and therefore heaven comes to dwell on earth.  AFTER the Millennium. 

Jesus said that He is going to prepare a place for us so that we may be where He is (John  14:1-3). Jesus is in heaven at the right hand of the Father (Romans 8:34). Believers will go to heaven after they die, return with Him during the millennial reign and be God's habitation in the new heaven and earth, the New Jerusalem. Also, where do you think the two witnesses went when they were given the command to "Come up here" (Rev. 11:12)? Where do you think they ascended up to?  By the way, this thread is not about whether there is a rapture, it is about being prepared to be kept from the hour, however God chooses to do it and to be aware of the different falsehoods that prevent a believer from being in the Philadelphian category that will be protected. I would appreciate it if you would try and keep to the topic of the thread. Thanks.

[Keras]

6 hours ago, Biblican said:

Jesus said that He is going to prepare a place for us so that we may be where He is (John  14:1-3). Jesus is in heaven at the right hand of the Father (Romans 8:34). Believers will go to heaven after they die, return with Him during the millennial reign and be God's habitation in the new heaven and earth, the New Jerusalem. Also, where do you think the two witnesses went when they were given the command to "Come up here" (Rev. 11:12)? Where do you think they ascended up to?  By the way, this thread is not about whether there is a rapture, it is about being prepared to be kept from the hour, however God chooses to do it and to be aware of the different falsehoods that prevent a believer from being in the Philadelphian category that will be protected. I would appreciate it if you would try and keep to the topic of the thread. Thanks.

Well then, MM; we are in agreement.

It will be the Lord's protection that will keep us safe during all that must happen before Jesus Returns. 

Jesus will call the 2 Witnesses to Him, as He is on His way to Jerusalem. As 1 Thess 4:7 and Matthew 24:31 tell us He will do for all of His own people. 

[Biblican]

19 hours ago, Keras said:

Well then, MM; we are in agreement.

It will be the Lord's protection that will keep us safe during all that must happen before Jesus Returns. 

Jesus will call the 2 Witnesses to Him, as He is on His way to Jerusalem. As 1 Thess 4:7 and Matthew 24:31 tell us He will do for all of His own people. 

We have to qualify for that protection, it is not a given. That's why it is important to understand Revelation's chapters two and three. I will do another thread that goes into this in more detail. I am glad we can agree on something. Understanding prophetic symbolism in Revelation is important. Yes, the Two witnesses/candlesticks/churches are called up before Jesus returns. That would be the pre-trib rapture before the seventh trumpet sounds. The group that is gathered by the angels in Matthew 24 is the first resurrection and occurs after the tribulation, but before God pours His final wrath on the beast's empire. That's how I see it anyway. God bless.