Are We Predestined?

[Dennis1209]

3 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

The question has to do with who is doing the writing. The Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit but man is the one that does the actual writing. 

That's a very interesting topic in itself I've been looking into somewhat [inspiration by the Holy Spirit]. It's not like downloaded a program to their brains like we would download a program on the computer. Then I get side tracked with something and start chasing the rabbit trails and it branches out like a genealogy tree... 

Short for instances: When reading scripture, sometimes it becomes obvious the author had read other material and either quotes it or references it, from where and why? Then I think about understanding what the author is trying to convey. Jewish thinking and beliefs back then are different from the western mind and over time. Then I chase that a bit...

I need to train myself to stick to the topic I'm studying, much like sticking to the topic of the OP thread post I frequently stray from.

[JohnR7]

8 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Short for instances: When reading scripture, sometimes it becomes obvious the author had read other material and either quotes it or references it, from where and why?

There is an oral tradition that goes back at least to Abraham if not back to Adam. As far as the Bible is concerned God gave Moses all of His program of redemption. ONLY Jesus can add to what we receive from Moses. So mostly we have the Torah, the first five books in the Bible and we have the red letters in the NT. Everyone else helps us to understand what we receive from Moses and Jesus.  

God declares the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). We need to go back and start at the beginning esp in Genesis. WE can not start with the last book in the Bible as many people try to do. So I always like to go back first to see what Moses said and then build upon my understanding from there. 

 

[JohnR7]

8 hours ago, David1701 said:

The language in biblical times was far LESS precise, and more generalised, than nowadays.

You really need to go to youtube and study up on Hebrew. The Bible in Hebrew is very accurate and precise. Hebrew was the ancient language before the tower of Babel when the languages were confused. 

[Marilyn C]

17 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

The question has to do with who is doing the writing. The Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit but man is the one that does the actual writing. 

So the Holy Spirit does not cover that too? His own word left to man`s errors? I think not.

[JohnD]

14 hours ago, David1701 said:

Alright, there is no point in pursuing this any further.  I understood what you meant; it was just the way you phrased it that was wrong.

The why did you pursue it further. 

You are wrong.

Good grief.

 

[Justin Adams]

9 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

You really need to go to youtube and study up on Hebrew. The Bible in Hebrew is very accurate and precise. Hebrew was the ancient language before the tower of Babel when the languages were confused. 

If you mean Ugaritic then maybe, but remember that God did not call Abram until AFTER He scattered the nations under the auspices of lesser gods (70 holy ones) as per Deut 32. Psalm 82 tells us they failed miserably and set up the various pantheons...'you will all die like men' is their indictment.

So 'Israel' was not formed until Jacob (Israel) got his new name at the 'Jacob's ladder' episode.

[David1701]

14 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

You really need to go to youtube and study up on Hebrew. The Bible in Hebrew is very accurate and precise. Hebrew was the ancient language before the tower of Babel when the languages were confused. 

You really need to remember that the passage in question was a New Testament passage, written in Greek, not Hebrew.  We were discussing 2 Pet. 3...

Also, I was not referring to the accuracy of the Bible, as you well know, but the way in which people used language like "all", "world", etc., in NT times.  I gave an example, from Rom. 3, which you ignored, to show Paul making explicit what would not have needed to be explicit, had people used language in the way you claim.

I sometimes wonder whether or not it's worth discussing anything with some people.

[Dennis1209]

20 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

There is an oral tradition that goes back at least to Abraham if not back to Adam. As far as the Bible is concerned God gave Moses all of His program of redemption. ONLY Jesus can add to what we receive from Moses. So mostly we have the Torah, the first five books in the Bible and we have the red letters in the NT. Everyone else helps us to understand what we receive from Moses and Jesus.  

God declares the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). We need to go back and start at the beginning esp in Genesis. WE can not start with the last book in the Bible as many people try to do. So I always like to go back first to see what Moses said and then build upon my understanding from there. 

 

I don't know and only bringing up questions, thoughts and speculations...

Writing has been around a long time, back to at least Mesopotamia? I've heard some scholars suggest the original language was Hebrew? I've wondered if Noah preserved and carried some writings with him on the Ark? Did Moses get all his information to write the five books directly from God himself in 40 days on the mountain top, and write it down? I see that as improbable based on the amount of information and physical resources required?

Human communication has been around since the creation of Adam, he named all the animals. Adam and all of creation was created with the appearance of maturity, therefore; Adam was created an adult with the knowledge to communicate and is expressed in Genesis. Was that communication verbal or by thought? Seems to me if it was verbal, it had to be written down for posterity and a record? 

Like I said, I don't know, but it's interesting to think about...

[JohnR7]

4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Writing has been around a long time, back to at least Mesopotamia? I've heard some scholars suggest the original language was Hebrew? I've wondered if Noah preserved and carried some writings with him on the Ark? Did Moses get all his information to write the five books directly from God himself in 40 days on the mountain top, and write it down? I see that as improbable based on the amount of information and physical resources required?

Moses was raised by a daughter of the Pharaoh. This means he received the best education that Egypt had to offer and he had access to the library at Alexandria. They were using papyrus but before this they used clay tablets. There are people that believe some of what we find in the Bible was copied from clay tablets. 

There are two theories of languages, one secular and one religious. At the time there were two groups of people living in Mesopotamia, Hebrews and the Sumerians who use the Phoenician  (Phonics) system that they teach in our schools today based on the sound of the letters and words.   

The information from Abraham was a part of the oral tradition. Abraham was a Chaldean from the city of Ur and had the best education they had to offer at the time. He was the first to leave the Tigris Euphrates river valley and the word Hebrew actually means to cross over the river. 

Moses when to his mountain top retreat many times. Today they have put steps in to make the climb there easier. He was able to climb the mountain up to the end of his life when he was 120.  He fasted for 40 days and people who fast know how clear their mind is and how easy it is to receive from God. 

[JohnR7]

4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Human communication has been around since the creation of Adam, he named all the animals. Adam and all of creation was created with the appearance of maturity, therefore; Adam was created an adult with the knowledge to communicate and is expressed in Genesis. Was that communication verbal or by thought? Seems to me if it was verbal, it had to be written down for posterity and a record? 

I have had whole conversations with people with just out thoughts. The DNA evidence shows that Adam and Eve had parents just like everyone else. What made them different was the breath of life God put in them. Adam named the domesticated plants and animals that God had planted in Eden. There are people at the universities in Jerusalem with PhD's in Botany that can show us where domesticated plants come from Ancient wild plants in the middle east. Everything on Noah's ARK had to be domesticated. Wild plants are spread by the wind and nature. Domesticated plants needs man to plant and cultivate them. This was the beginning of civilization because man as a food producer was able to produce a lot more food for a lot more people than the hunter gathers that were here before Adam and Eve.  

I began to study all of this 50 years ago when I was in HIgh School. So I have gained a lot of information over the years from all I have read and studied using Science, History & the Bible as my guide. My Ancient HIstory teacher was a Holocaust survivor from Germany.  He actually lived to be 100.  My Science (Biology) teacher was a graduate of Harvard. So I was given a very good foundation to build on over the years.