Suicide And Heaven

[BeauJangles]

11 hours ago, HAZARD said:

If you have read all my posts on the topic being discussed here you will see that I am not judging anyone. All I did was give two examples of where God cut off two saved men from out of His book of life after they committed suicide.

Sorry to disagree and also my further apologies for coming back into this topic. I did mention bowing out, but once you begin receiving notifications, they continue as the thread does. Again, my personal view and probably countless others. Judas did follow Christ and was chosen by Him for a specific reason. That was to betray Jesus.  

No, he was never a believer in Him as the true Messiah, therefore was never really born again as the others were and/or became. It is remotely possible that Thomas may not have fully believed in Jesus until the resurrected Lord appeared before him physically after His crucifixion and the death from the cross of Calvary on Golgotha.

No written accounts mention him confessing Jesus as the Son of God, as did Peter prior to the other disciples. There aren't many accounted suicides in the bible, so there isn't much to go on as specifics. More topics of particulars aren't even addressed in either the New or Old Testament. We in these times of the modern age are a curious lot.  

Bottom line? Judas was not saved, nor had he ever experienced salvation.

Edited October 6, 2020 by BeauJangles

[David1701]

16 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Suicide is a death penalty sin. 

If you mean physical death, then suicide, if successful, has already carried out its own penalty.  If you mean spiritual death, then that goes for every sin; but a born again Christian has already passed from spiritual death to life and does not come into judgment.

John 5:24 (EMTV) Most assuredly I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has eternal life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. 

[David1701]

13 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Anyone who is mentally disturbed in any way will be judged rightly by God. Those who self murder for other reasons will also be judged accordingly, for example. I personally knew a man who secretly cheated on his wife with many women and he also sexually interfered with his own young daughter for may years, who was finally caught out. Police were contacted by his family and just before they arrived he had killed himself. Did he repent?? I doubt it. I believe he was frightened of the public and family humiliation and other consequences.

He also had not been born again, no matter what he might have claimed.

1 John 3:6-10 (ESV)

6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
  7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
  8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
  9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
  10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by David1701
typo

[BeauJangles]

14 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Scriptures plainly teach that Judas was a genuine disciple or follower of Christ who fell from his apostleship and lost his salvation through his sin.

There aren't even written words from Judas to confirm he was a true believer in the Messiah. Being trusted as the holder of the accounts only gave him access to it as an accompanying factor in hanging on to the betrayal payout. If you can find substantiation I'd be more than happy to look over the information you're alleging. So far I can't see it. We do know the devil entered into him. All I know is this. A true believer CAN NOT be possessed of the devil. How do I know this to be factual? I've been an avid student of demonology in association of the deliverance ministry. 

[Marathoner]

1 hour ago, BeauJangles said:

Again, my personal view and probably countless others. Judas did follow Christ and was chosen by Him for a specific reason. That was to betray Jesus.  

Well said. This was indeed the role Judas was chosen to fulfill. I marvel at the double-mindedness I encounter with regard to the crucifixion of our Lord, something we see reflected in the hatred of Jews a century after the apostle Paul was martyred and John disappeared. Mystery shrouds the fate of the apostle whom the Lord loved... we know John wasn't martyred but apart from this fact, history is silent as to his fate. 

This is indicative of the falling away foretold by Paul. Our Savior's crucifixion was spoken of by the prophets of old: He was blameless but numbered among transgressors... He was a man of sorrows acquainted with grief... and in His own words, Christ laid down His life for the sake of His friends. There's no greater love a man can have than this: that he lay down his life for his friends. 

This was our Father's intention from the beginning, His plan for our redemption as recorded in the book of Genesis. Remember: Satan entered Judas according to the will of God. "What you do, do quickly." (John 13:27) When Peter protested that Christ must be slain, what did the Lord say to Him? 

Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You.” But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s.” (Matthew 16:22)

This, after Peter confessed Him in verse 16. Those who set their interests upon man cannot grasp the things of God.

[Coliseum]

On 10/4/2020 at 6:47 PM, Faith 23 said:

I was wondering if the Bible says anything about if a person who is saved commits suicide, will they go to heaven? Scripture appreciated. 

No one knows what is in the heart of man except the Lord. The pain someone is suffering is not for me to judge. When someone is suicidal, he does not generally listen to reason, but compassion. 

[Marathoner]

41 minutes ago, BeauJangles said:

There aren't even written words from Judas to confirm he was a true believer in the Messiah. Being trusted as the holder of the accounts only gave him access to it as an accompanying factor in hanging on to the betrayal payout. If you can find substantiation I'd be more than happy to look over the information you're alleging. So far I can't see it. We do know the devil entered into him. All I know is this. A true believer CAN NOT be possessed of the devil. How do I know this to be factual? I've been an avid student of demonology in association of the deliverance ministry. 

This is easily refuted and answered according to the account delivered to us in the scriptures. The disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost after the Lord rose from the dead and ascended to heaven to sit with our Father upon His throne. There are some who insist otherwise, pointing to those missions the Lord charged the disciples to perform as evidence of their being filled with the Spirit. Yet the Spirit of God imparted gifts to men before Christ sent the Helper into this world: those men of faith and prophets of old who pointed toward the substance to come.  

[IloveyouGod.]

On 10/4/2020 at 5:47 PM, Faith 23 said:

I was wondering if the Bible says anything about if a person who is saved commits suicide, will they go to heaven? Scripture appreciated.

As far as I know, in the bible there are only two mentions of suicide, Judas and King Saul.     I do believe that if you do kill yourself you will go to heaven if you are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ.  I also know that we cannot we with our limited earthly knowledge even come close to understanding the pain someone is going through if they are planning on committing suicide or if they already did, unless we ourselves have been to that place of mind.   

Why do I think this?  

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

Romans 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

1 Thessalonians 5:9  "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Just because it is not an damming sin does not mean we should kill ourselves, for the pain we would inflict on our families would be horrible.   

 

God bless.
 

[Figure of eighty]

16 hours ago, BeauJangles said:

Judas never truly believed. He was looking for another messiah that was going to take kingship because he was a Zealot = militant Jew. Once he knew Jesus wasn't going to do this, he lost all the so-called 'faith' he ever had. Oh, he regretted betraying "innocent blood" alright. Was it repentance? Hardly. 

Right. He wasnt a true believer in jesus said amomg the 12 one is a devil. 

[David1701]

3 hours ago, IloveyouGod. said:

As far as I know, in the bible there are only two mentions of suicide, Judas and King Saul.     I do believe that if you do kill yourself you will go to heaven if you are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ.  I also know that we cannot we with our limited earthly knowledge even come close to understanding the pain someone is going through if they are planning on committing suicide or if they already did, unless we ourselves have been to that place of mind.   

Why do I think this?  

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

Romans 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

1 Thessalonians 5:9  "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Just because it is not an damming sin does not mean we should kill ourselves, for the pain we would inflict on our families would be horrible.   

 

God bless.
 

Amen!  Although there are other suicides in the Bible.

2 Samuel 17:23 (MKJV) And when Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, even he saddled the ass and arose, and went home to his house, to his city, and put his household in order. And he hanged himself and died, and was buried in the tomb of his father.

1 Chron. 10:5 (MKJV) And his armour-bearer saw that Saul was dead, and he also fell on the sword and died.

Quote

Just because it is not an damming sin does not mean we should kill ourselves, for the pain we would inflict on our families would be horrible.  

And because it would displease and dishonour the Lord.

Edited October 6, 2020 by David1701