What is a "soul?"

[enoob57]

When the plain reading of a passage makes sense seek no other sense... a hermeneutic principle and common sense... Job 38 is clearly about creation... 

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Not possible that the "CORNER STONE"  wasn't laid till after Noahs flood.  

Not possible for ALL the sons of God to be shouting for joy then either.  

 

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

You should understand that Job 38 is NOT about the Creation of the earth. It is the RE-FORMING of the earth after the Flood! There are a few contextual clues that suggest this:

I WILL BE HAPPY to understand WHEN you point out GODS WORD SAYING it. 

(I REALLY HOPE SOME DAY NOT TO HEAR "YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND" (and all the rest of the disguised put downs) AS IT JUST MEANS "YOU NEED TO SEE IT MY WAY" EVEN though I have no clue how in depth you have gone into it compared to me.  Can't point it out in Gods word or with Gods WORDS, but it is still HOW it must be seen.  So UNTIL ONE IS SURE THE ONE THEY ARE HAVING THE DISCUSSION WITH REALLY DOESN'T "understand" they shouldn't.  But worse, it puts all of you into a group instantly, and that just makes me feel prejudice the second I read that and I don't like that.  OR, I could be wrong and if so I would apologize.


It is about re forming  "after a flood"   it is not after NOAHS FLOOD IT WAS REFORMED  


IT WAS AFTER SATANS FALL FROM THE HIGHEST POSITION AND PLACE GOD CREATED to the lowest, which broke Gods heart (my words, not scripture)

You would have to believe that a bunch of angels leaving their habitation to pollute the blood line though which Christ would come

WAS WORSE in Gods eyes

THAN the one (Satan) GODS MADE the full pattern, full of wisdom and beauty, who had been elevated to the position of the most trusted,

TURNING ON HIM by turning 1/3 of His children against him, AKA totally stabbing Him in the back.  

As I can't, 
We will, for now, just disagree.   




WONT LET ME HIGHLIGHT AND QUOTE SO I HAD TO COPY AND PASTE
____________________________________________________________________________________
1) The "laying of the foundation of the earth" is talking about the bedrock of the dry land; yet the earth's crust was broken apart during the days of the Flood.
_____________________________________________________________________________________


SINCE YOU BRING UP "FOUNDATION",  and we are GETTING all into "THE LETTER"

 

Themelios 
Never used of the world (kosmos) or the earth (ge)

Luke 6:48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, thestream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 

Luke 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great. 

Luke 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? 
Luke 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, 

Acts 16:26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed. 

Romans 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 
Romans 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: 
Romans 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand. 

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 
1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 
1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 
Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 
Ephesians 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 
Ephesians 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. 

1 Timothy 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; 
1 Timothy 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. 

2 Timothy 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 
2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 
Hebrews 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 
Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 

Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 

Revelation 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; 

Corrresponding Verb 
Themelioo

KATABOLE

Matthew 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. 

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 

Luke 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. 
 

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 

Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 

Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 
Hebrews 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 
Hebrews 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. 
Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 

VERB KATABALLO

2 Corinthians 4:9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; 

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 

 

A comparison of all these passages (especially 2 Corinthians 4:9, and Revelation 12:10) will show that

kataballo and katabole are not the proper terms for founding and foundation, but the correct meaning is casting down, or overthrow. 

Consistency, therefore, calls for the same translation in Hebrews 6:1, where, instead of "not laying again", the rendering should be "not casting down". That is to say, the foundation already laid, of repentance, etc., was not to be cast down or overthrown, but was to be left—and progress made unto the perfection. 


 

Accordingly, the Noun katabole, derived from, and cognate with the Verb, ought to be translated "disruption", or "ruin".     


The remarkable thing is that in all occurrences (except Hebrews 11:11) the word is connected with "the world" (Greek kosmos),

and therefore the expression should be rendered "the disruption (or ruin) of the world", clearly referring to the condition indicated in Genesis 1:2, and described in 2 Peter 3:5, 6.


For the earth was not created tohu (Isaiah 45:18),

but became so, as stated IN THE HEBREW of Genesis 1:2

and confirmed by 2 Peter 3:6,
where "the world that then was by the word of God" (Genesis 1:1), perished,
 

and "the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word" were created
(Genesis 2:4),

and are "kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment" (2 Peter 3:7) which shall usher in the "new heavens and the new earth" of 2 Peter 3:13. 



"The disruption of the world" is an event forming a great dividing line in the dispensations of the ages".



In Genesis 1:1 we have the founding of the world (Hebrews 1:10 = themelioo),

but in Genesis 1:2 we have its overthrow. 

This is confirmed by a further remarkable fact, that the phrase,
which occurs ten times,

is associated with the Preposition apo = from, seven times,

and with pro = before,  three times.

The former refers to the kingdom, and is connected with the "counsels" of God; the latter refers to the Mystery (or Secret) and is connected with the "purpose" of God (see John 17:24. Eph. 1:4. 1 Peter 1:20).

 
Ample New Testament testimony is thus given to the profoundly significant fact recorded in Genesis 1:2, that "the earth became tohu and bohu (that is to say, waste and desolate); and darkness was on the face of the deep", before the creation of "the heavens and the earth which are now" (2 Peter 3:7).



(ME COPYING FROM SOMETHING I COPIED BUT YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO TELL HOW I WRITE FROM HOW GOD WRITES AND FROM WHO WROTE THE REST, HOPEFULLY.)  

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

When the plain reading of a passage makes sense seek no other sense... a hermeneutic principle and common sense... Job 38 is clearly about creation... 

Shalom, Steven.

Nope. Sorry, but the "plain reading of THIS passage" is that of the rebuilding of the earth AFTER the Flood. One ONLY sees "Creation" in this passage if one is predisposed to see "Creation" in this passage! Here's the problem: One reads:

4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? ..."

and thinks ONLY of Genesis 1. HOWEVER, there was a SECOND such event in history that occurred in Genesis 8!

Don't forget Peter's words in 2 Peter 3:

2 Peter 3:3-7 (KJV)

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying,

"Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation."

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

And, that last verse is about the Great White Throne Judgment and the Fire that is mentioned in ...

Revelation 20:8-15

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[DeighAnn]

14 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

We await the Resurrection and THEN we step into SERVICE to God our Father and His Messiah Yeshua`! Yeshua` shall be reigning from His father David's throne in Jerusalem, and we shall be doing His bidding, including reigning with Him when we have acquired the wisdom to reign.

When my silver cord parts, I will be returning back to God.  I won't be "waiting" in some body that is decaying here on earth.

My hope, is to attain that I will be reigning with Christ until the day Christ puts it all under Him and God becomes all and all.

We shall be doing Gods bidding and for the sake of seeing eye to eye lets just say "Emmanuel's". 

 

14 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

I HOPE you're not saying that your "spirit" is connected to your body by a "silver cord!"

I am not.  I don't understand the rest of what you wrote after misunderstanding that,  but I'll bet it looks ever so good to others.  Nice.  But really, none of it is coming off very Christian like.  But any hoo, 
 

WHO IS THE POTTER?  WHO IS THE CLAY?
Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
DIES/sleeps

THE TERESTRIAL BODY RETURNS TO WHERE IT CAME FROM, DUST OF THE EARTH, AND THE SPIRIT RETURNS TO GOD.  WHO GAVE IT 

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

GOD GAVE US 2 BODIES. 
EARTHLY/TERESTRIAL/ CORRUPTIBLE/MORTAL

AND A CELESTRIAL.  DID I MISS SOMETHING?

 

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

 1Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

 

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 

1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

 

1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


 

Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

Luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

Luke 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

 

Let is flow in the simplicity of Christ, as all the rest is

 Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.

PLEASE lets not go into how Davids carcass is still here on earth or how a dead body knows nothing (no spirit in that dead body/flesh as it decays, the worms going in the worms going out...)  

Either we believe God is the God of the living or we don't.  It is that simple.

 

[DeighAnn]

15 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Another viewpoint that is more consistent with Jewish thinking is that God will bring those asleep, now reawakened in the Resurrection, with Yeshua` as He returns to the Middle East, to Israel, and to Yerushalayim ("Jerusalem"), the City of the Great King.

Never seen where "it is written".   My commonly held belief is to believe what is seen "written". The Spirit leads me that way.   I don't care what the Jewish think, they don't even read it the same way I do.  I read it with the Spirit, they read it through the "letter".  What way do you think the New Covenant was for?

So when God asks you why you NOT ONLY didn't believe that "those who were asleep returned"  but instead chose to believe that "they were buried with their dead flesh and kept there until Christ returned and then re awakened to go the middle east" and askes WHERE was that written?  What will you answer?

[DeighAnn]

15 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

I have studied these verses at length in the Greek. A "spiritual body," "sooma pneumatikon," is not an "intangible, immaterial" body. Rather, it is compared to a "sooma psuchikon," an "air-breathing body," (poorly translated as a "natural body"). Thus, it is the difference between comparing the normal in-and-out breathing to the BLASTING of a high WIND! Paul is here talking about the resurrected body being MUCH STRONGER than the weak body that we currently are. Thus, a "sooma pneumatikon" is an "air-BLASTING body!"

Pretty sure the events of Sodom let us know what "spiritual" bodies are like.  Or the events before the flood in Noahs time.  We are made in "image" after all.  

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

[DeighAnn]

15 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

It will seem as though no time has passed at all! Like a blink, we will close our eyes in death and snap them open in the Resurrection, ready for our King to begin His reign!

This is written where?

[DeighAnn]

15 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Rather, one should say, "the FIRST 1000 years of the reign of Christ." And, technically, the words really refer to how long haSatan shall be imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit before being released.

1 Corinthians 15:25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.

1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1 Corinthians 15:27 For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, Which did put all things under Him.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, That God may be all in all.

1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

1 Corinthians 15:30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

1 Corinthians 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

1 Corinthians 15:32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

[Retrobyter]

6 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Not possible that the "CORNER STONE"  wasn't laid till after Noahs flood.  

Not possible for ALL the sons of God to be shouting for joy then either.  

Shalom, DeighAnn.

It is if you understand the Hebrew words for "corner stone":

The Hebrew is "even pinnaataah," meaning "stone of-[the]-pinnacle." It's not some BOTTOM stone laid somewhere; it's the PEAK stone last laid, and today, we call that "Mount Everest." There's even a passage of Scripture that describes the mountain up-thrusting that occurred after the Flood:

Psalm 104:1-9 (KJV)

1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

Here's verse 8 in a couple of other translations:

Psalm 104:7-9 (NLT)

7 At your command, the water fled;
at the sound of your thunder, it hurried away.
8 Mountains rose and valleys sank
to the levels you decreed.
9 Then you set a firm boundary for the seas,
so they would never again cover the earth.

Psalm 104:6-9 (NASB)

     6 You covered it with the deep as with a garment;
            The waters were standing above the mountains.

      7 At Your rebuke they fled,
            At the sound of Your thunder they hurried away.

      8 The mountains rose; the valleys sank down
            To the place which You established for them.

      9 You set a boundary that they may not pass over,
            So that they will not return to cover the earth.

This is another passage that is CLEARLY about the Flood of Noach's day and God's rebuilding process after the Flood!

6 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I WILL BE HAPPY to understand WHEN you point out GOD'S WORD SAYING it. 

(I REALLY HOPE SOME DAY NOT TO HEAR "YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND" (and all the rest of the disguised put downs) AS IT JUST MEANS "YOU NEED TO SEE IT MY WAY" EVEN though I have no clue how in depth you have gone into it compared to me.  Can't point it out in Gods word or with Gods WORDS, but it is still HOW it must be seen.  So UNTIL ONE IS SURE THE ONE THEY ARE HAVING THE DISCUSSION WITH REALLY DOESN'T "understand" they shouldn't.  But worse, it puts all of you into a group instantly, and that just makes me feel prejudice the second I read that and I don't like that.  OR, I could be wrong and if so I would apologize.

As far as my credentials, I've never made much ado about them, but I was a straight-A student and valedictorian at my high school during my senior year at a newly formed Christian high school back at the bicentennial. I took Bible science, which was based upon Scientific Creationism, the textbook from the Institute of Creation Research, and my project that year was to investigate 150 Scripture passages (far more than a mere 150 verses) and create a Creation/Flood Model. I took the task quite seriously and worked every last verse of the 150 Scripture passages into that model.

NONE of these verses have taken me by surprise; I've encountered them all in my studies.

I've had consultations with my science teacher (who later became our pastor), a brilliant man who understands the depths of Scripture, and with Evangelist J. Herbert Pugmire, a Creationist, archaeologist, and published author.

One of the FIRST things I had to learn is that the Bible is NOT subjective; it's OBJECTIVE! It's not up to the reader what a passage meant; it's up to the author and the AUTHOR behind the author (His prophet) what the Scripture passage meant! That is, it's not about "he said, she said"; it's about what GOD said and NOTHING LESS!

6 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

It is about re forming  "after a flood"   it is not after NOAHS FLOOD IT WAS REFORMED  

IT WAS AFTER SATANS FALL FROM THE HIGHEST POSITION AND PLACE GOD CREATED to the lowest, which broke Gods heart (my words, not scripture)

You would have to believe that a bunch of angels leaving their habitation to pollute the blood line though which Christ would come

WAS WORSE in Gods eyes

THAN the one (Satan) GODS MADE the full pattern, full of wisdom and beauty, who had been elevated to the position of the most trusted,

TURNING ON HIM by turning 1/3 of His children against him, AKA totally stabbing Him in the back.  

As I can't, 
We will, for now, just disagree.   

Well, this is a matter of THEOLOGY, not of biblical hermeneutics. But, I'll deal with this below when you speak of Genesis 1:1 and 2:

6 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

WONT LET ME HIGHLIGHT AND QUOTE SO I HAD TO COPY AND PASTE
____________________________________________________________________________________
1) The "laying of the foundation of the earth" is talking about the bedrock of the dry land; yet the earth's crust was broken apart during the days of the Flood.
_____________________________________________________________________________________


SINCE YOU BRING UP "FOUNDATION",  and we are GETTING all into "THE LETTER"

 

Themelios 
Never used of the world (kosmos) or the earth (ge)

Well, I can appreciate your "getting into the letter," so to speak, but Scriptural passages from the TANAKH (the "Old Testament") are in the Hebrew language, not the Greek. Just the same, the Greek can be valuable, too, as the Greek of the B'rit haChadashah (the "New Testament") quotes from the TANAKH.

Themelios, themelioi in the plural, are Greek terms for "foundation(s)" or "footing(s)," and yes, the B'rit haChadashah says little about them referring to the world or the earth. However, that's why the initial passage is from Iyov ("Job"). One should be first investigating the Hebrew word for "foundation," which is "adown," pronounced "ah-doan'."

6 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Luke 6:48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, thestream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 

Luke 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great. 

Luke 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? 
Luke 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, 

Acts 16:26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed. 

Romans 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 
Romans 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: 
Romans 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand. 

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 
1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 
1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 
Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 
Ephesians 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 
Ephesians 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. 

1 Timothy 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; 
1 Timothy 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. 

2 Timothy 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 
2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 
Hebrews 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 
Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 

Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 

Revelation 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; 

Corrresponding Verb 
Themelioo

KATABOLE

This second Greek word you insert here as a source for the translation of "foundation" means "a throwing-down" or "a setting-down." It often means an "establishing."

6 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 

Matthew 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. 

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 

Luke 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. 
 

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 

Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 

Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 
Hebrews 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 
Hebrews 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. 
Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 

VERB KATABALLO

 

And, this verb, too, is a Greek word meaning "I throw down." Again, however, the word can be used to mean "I set down."

6 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 

2 Corinthians 4:9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; 

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 

 

A comparison of all these passages (especially 2 Corinthians 4:9, and Revelation 12:10) will show that

kataballo and katabole are not the proper terms for founding and foundation, but the correct meaning is casting down, or overthrow. 

Consistency, therefore, calls for the same translation in Hebrews 6:1, where, instead of "not laying again", the rendering should be "not casting down". That is to say, the foundation already laid, of repentance, etc., was not to be cast down or overthrown, but was to be left—and progress made unto the perfection. 


 

Accordingly, the Noun katabole, derived from, and cognate with the Verb, ought to be translated "disruption", or "ruin".     


The remarkable thing is that in all occurrences (except Hebrews 11:11) the word is connected with "the world" (Greek kosmos),

and therefore the expression should be rendered "the disruption (or ruin) of the world", clearly referring to the condition indicated in Genesis 1:2, and described in 2 Peter 3:5, 6.


For the earth was not created tohu (Isaiah 45:18),

but became so, as stated IN THE HEBREW of Genesis 1:2

and confirmed by 2 Peter 3:6,
where "the world that then was by the word of God" (Genesis 1:1), perished,
 

and "the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word" were created
(Genesis 2:4),

and are "kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment" (2 Peter 3:7) which shall usher in the "new heavens and the new earth" of 2 Peter 3:13. 

Here, I must draw the line. THIS is TOTALLY WRONG and IRRESPONSIBLE treatment of God's Word!

Genesis 1:1 did NOT come before Genesis 1:2! That is a FAR-TOO-COMMON ERROR that some English-speaking person who has absolutely NO CLUE how Hebrew works or how Jewish thinking and literature are approached! Instead, they've taken a few verses in Genesis 1 and a few verses in Jeremiah 4 and have built a Theology that should NEVER have been started!!!

Jewish literature would frequently begin a subject with the main points and THEN delve into the details! It's like stating a summary of what is to follow FIRST and THEN go into the details of that summary.

Such is the case in Genesis 1:1. 

B'reeshiyt 1:1

1 B'reeshiyt baaraa' Elohiym et hashaamayim v'et haa'aarets:

1 B'reeshiyt = 1 In-[the]-beginning
baaraa' = created
Elohiym = God
et = (next word is a direct object)
hashaamayim = the-skies (dual-plural)
v'et = and-(next word is a direct object)
haa'aarets: = the-land/earth:

This is a SUMMARY of what is to follow! Verses 7 and 8 was when God actually formed the firmament and named it "skies," and verses 9 and 10 was when God actually formed and named the dry ground "the land/earth." The verses after that bring even more order and inhabitants to the environments He created.

There's no "gap" between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. In verse 2, God merely begins making order FOR THE FIRST TIME out of the chaos.

And, your interpretation of 2 Peter 3:3-13 is COMPLETELY FORGETTING the Flood of Noach's day! And, I THINK, that is because so few of your teachers really put any importance on a MAJOR CATACLYSMIC EVENT!

So, you're trying to "read into" 2 Peter 3 your theological theory about a "gap" between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, and you DOWNPLAY the actual Flood!

6 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

"The disruption of the world" is an event forming a great dividing line in the dispensations of the ages".



In Genesis 1:1 we have the founding of the world (Hebrews 1:10 = themelioo),

but in Genesis 1:2 we have its overthrow. 

Again, this is NOT TRUE. Learn some Hebrew, please.

6 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

This is confirmed by a further remarkable fact, that the phrase,
which occurs ten times,

is associated with the Preposition apo = from, seven times,

and with pro = before,  three times.

The former refers to the kingdom, and is connected with the "counsels" of God; the latter refers to the Mystery (or Secret) and is connected with the "purpose" of God (see John 17:24. Eph. 1:4. 1 Peter 1:20).

 
Ample New Testament testimony is thus given to the profoundly significant fact recorded in Genesis 1:2, that "the earth became tohu and bohu (that is to say, waste and desolate); and darkness was on the face of the deep", before the creation of "the heavens and the earth which are now" (2 Peter 3:7).



(ME COPYING FROM SOMETHING I COPIED BUT YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO TELL HOW I WRITE FROM HOW GOD WRITES AND FROM WHO WROTE THE REST, HOPEFULLY.)  

Your problem in interpretation here is the understanding of the word, "haaytaah," which is a simple word of being. It doesn't mean "became"; it means "was." The chaos was ALREADY THERE! It didn't "COME INTO BEING!" Again, take a course in Biblical Hebrew! DON'T PAINT YOURSELF INTO A CORNER!

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

When my silver cord parts, I will be returning back to God.  I won't be "waiting" in some body that is decaying here on earth.

Shalom, DeighAnn.

See? This is what I meant! Your "silver cord" won't "part" as though it is some sort of rope tethering you to your body! That is NOT what the passage means! And, as I said before, whether you agree with the whole philosophy or not, the philosophy comes from the Buddhist view of one's astral self, one's "soul," being tethered to the physical.

Some believe that one can leave his or her body and float freely away from the body during states of unconsciousness and still be able to return to his or her body as long as the "silver cord" doesn't break! If ever the "silver cord" breaks, the soul is free to leave the body permanently! That's the belief. It's called "astral projection," and one will find this nonsense portrayed in the Marvel Universe movies involving Dr. Strange.

You - the BODY - SHALL be waiting in the ground decaying until the Resurrection. You won't be aware of the wait; for you, there will be no passage of time. You will simply wake up in the Resurrection, fully re-created and ready to go, and ready to serve in the King's battle plans.

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

My hope, is to attain that I will be reigning with Christ until the day Christ puts it all under Him and God becomes all and all.

We shall be doing Gods bidding and for the sake of seeing eye to eye lets just say "Emmanuel's". 

Good hope! You're absolutely right about this! However, it will happen here on earth, not in some "Heaven!" We'll be reigning over LITERAL towns and cities here on this earth! There will be a specific location for you over which you are well qualified to reign, and when you're ready for that position, and as He acquires that country, annexing it into His Kingdom, you will be assigned to reign over that location, reporting to Him, the Worldwide Emperor, the "King of kings," you being one of His "kings!"

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I am not.  I don't understand the rest of what you wrote after misunderstanding that,  but I'll bet it looks ever so good to others.  Nice.  But really, none of it is coming off very Christian like.  But any hoo, 
 

(Already covered above.)

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

WHO IS THE POTTER?  WHO IS THE CLAY?
Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
DIES/sleeps

THE TERESTRIAL BODY RETURNS TO WHERE IT CAME FROM, DUST OF THE EARTH, AND THE SPIRIT RETURNS TO GOD.  WHO GAVE IT 

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

GOD GAVE US 2 BODIES. 
EARTHLY/TERESTRIAL/ CORRUPTIBLE/MORTAL

AND A CELESTRIAL.  DID I MISS SOMETHING?

Yes, you're missing the RESURRECTION! God made you to be ONE BODY, but a normal physical body is insufficient for eternity. Therefore, God will RESURRECT you as a NEW BODY - an AIR-BLASTING ("SPIRITUAL") BODY! There's a TRANSFORMATION that shall occur in which you as an air-breathing body will be changed into you as an air-BLASTING body "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump!"

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

 1Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

 

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 

1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

YES! And these are all the ways in which your transformation will occur!

You will be "sown" into the ground as a body that can decay, but you will be raised in INCORRUPTION! You will be "sown" into the ground in insignificance, but you'll be raised from the ground in FAME/BRIGHTNESS! You will be "sown" into the ground in weakness - your physical make-up will no longer be able to support your life, but you'll be raised in POWER! You will be "sown" into the ground an air-breathing body, but you'll be raised an AIR-BLASTING BODY!

The first man, Adam, was of the ground, dust-like. The second man, Yeshua` the Messiah, is the Master from the sky! Like the first man, dust-like, so we all are likewise dust-like; and like the second man is from above the sky, so we all shall likewise be from above the sky!

 

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
 

YES! When Yeshua` the Messiah returns, God brings Him back, and raises us to new life! Then, He will bring us with Yeshua' to His next destination.

Prophecy tells us that THIS is how He shall return:

Zechariah 8:1-8 (KJV)

1 Again the word of the LORD of hosts came to me, saying, 

2 "Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury. 3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain. 4 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age. 5 And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof. 6 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes?" saith the LORD of hosts. 

7 "Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country; 8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness."

Isaiah 34:1-8 (KJV)

1 Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.

2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.

3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

8 For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Isaiah 63:1-6 (KJV)

1 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.

2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?

3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.

6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

Luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

Luke 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

 

Let is flow in the simplicity of Christ, as all the rest is

 Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.

PLEASE lets not go into how Davids carcass is still here on earth or how a dead body knows nothing (no spirit in that dead body/flesh as it decays, the worms going in the worms going out...)  

Either we believe God is the God of the living or we don't.  It is that simple.

 

It is that simple; HOWEVER, you've NEGLECTED the context in which Yeshua` said those words! He was talking about Him being the God of the living IN THE RESURRECTION!