What is a "soul?"

[Frits]

On 31-1-2021 at 9:35 PM, Retrobyter said:

THIS is over whom Yeshua` shall reign! If we have been adopted into the Olive Tree, then we too are part of that Kingdom, but it is primarily the actual children of Israel who were and are His FAMILY!

Bro Retrobyter,

Do you remember who the Lord Jesus personally pointed out and what He said about His family?

Mat 12:49 KJV And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

Mat 12:50 KJV For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

And do you remember that the Most High God cut off all branches of the olive tree, except for a small remnant!

Rom 9:27 KJV Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Rom 9:28 KJV For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

Not an unbelieving nation falsely called Israel represents the olive tree, for it was left by God to the fire:

Jer 11:16 KJV The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.

But the Lord Jesus is God's Olive Tree that Paul writes about, the new Noble Olive Tree.
We Christians were grafted by the new birth not to an unbelieving and God-hating people in the MO, but to Christ Jesus the Son of God.

Psa 24:6 KJV This is the generation of them that seek the Lord Jesus Christ, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.

God bless.

[Retrobyter]

On 2/2/2021 at 5:58 AM, Frits said:

Bro Retrobyter,

Do you remember who the Lord Jesus personally pointed out and what He said about His family?

Mat 12:49 KJV And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

Mat 12:50 KJV For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

And, do YOU remember that He still stretched forth his hand toward JEWS?! Don't discount the fact that there were MANY children of Israel who did the will of YHWH, Yeshua`s Father in the sky, for many generations before HIS generation! In the Resurrection, the remnant will be a very small portion of the children of Israel who lived before them (and after them)!

Furthermore, He wasn't disrespecting His mother or His siblings (which would have been a sin against the Law; "HONOR thy father and THY MOTHER")! He was INCLUDING those who were around Him as PART of His family! It's not "either ... or"; it's "BOTH ... AND!"

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And do you remember that the Most High God cut off all branches of the olive tree, except for a small remnant!

Rom 9:27 KJV Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Rom 9:28 KJV For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

Not an unbelieving nation falsely called Israel represents the olive tree, for it was left by God to the fire:

Jer 11:16 KJV The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.

I was okay with you quoting parts in Romans 9 through 11, but I draw the line at taking quotes from other places in Scripture that DO NOT APPLY! This is an IMPORTANT point! You can't make a valid case by using Scriptures that are YANKED out of context! HERE'S the context:

Jeremiah 11:6-17 (KJV)

6 Then the LORD said unto me (Yirmeyahuw or "Jeremiah"),

"Proclaim all these words in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, saying, Hear ye the words of this covenant, and do them. 7 For I earnestly protested unto your fathers in the day that I brought them up out of the land of Egypt, even unto this day, rising early and protesting, saying, 'Obey my voice.' 8 Yet they obeyed not, nor inclined their ear, but walked every one in the imagination of their evil heart: therefore I will bring upon them all the words of this covenant, which I commanded them to do; but they did them not."

9 And the LORD said unto me,

"A conspiracy is found among the men of Judah, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 10 They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers. 11 Therefore thus saith the LORD, 'Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them.' 12 Then shall the cities of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem go, and cry unto the gods unto whom they offer incense: but they shall not save them at all in the time of their trouble. 13 For according to the number of thy cities were thy gods, O Judah; and according to the number of the streets of Jerusalem have ye set up altars to that shameful thing, even altars to burn incense unto Baal.

14 "Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble.

15 "What hath my beloved to do in mine house, seeing she hath wrought lewdness with many, and the holy flesh is passed from thee? when thou doest evil, then thou rejoicest.

16 "The LORD called thy name, 'A green olive tree,' fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.

17 "For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal."

Thus, this was a message for Yirmeyahuw to deliver DIRECTLY to the "cities of Yhudah and the streets of Yerushalayim" IN HIS TIME! Even Paul didn't quote from this passage!

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But the Lord Jesus is God's Olive Tree that Paul writes about, the new Noble Olive Tree.
We Christians were grafted by the new birth not to an unbelieving and God-hating people in the MO, but to Christ Jesus the Son of God.

Psa 24:6 KJV This is the generation of them that seek the Lord Jesus Christ, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.

God bless.

Again, skip throwing in Psalm 24:6, ESPECIALLY when it doesn't say what you said it said!

Psalm 24:6 actually says,

6 This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.

And, the "him" refers to that IN CONTEXT!

1 {A Psalm of David.}

The earth is the LORD'S (YHWH'S), and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.

2 For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.

3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD (YHWH)? or who shall stand in his holy place?

4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

5 He shall receive the blessing from the LORD (YHWH), and righteousness from the God of his salvation.

6 This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.

7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.

8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD (YHWH) strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.

9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.

10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts (YHWH TsVaa'owt), he is the King of glory. Selah.

Yeshua` would be the FIRST to tell you that this applies to His Father, God!

No, our Master Yeshua` the Messiah ("our Lord Jesus the Christ") is NOT the "olive tree" to which Paul was referring in Romans 11. He shall be the KING over that "olive tree!" You need to CAREFULLY and RESPECTFULLY reconsider Romans 11!

Romans 11:1-2, 11-12, 15-32 (KJV)

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew!
...

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they (his people) should fall (permanently)? God forbid: but rather through their (temporary) fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the (temporary) fall of them be the riches of the world, and the (temporary) diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
...

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but LIFE FROM THE DEAD (RESURRECTION)? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if SOME of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in AMONG THEM, and WITH THEM partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 BOAST NOT AGAINST THE BRANCHES. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then,

"The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in."

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but FEAR: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee! 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which (temporarily) fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: OTHERWISE THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, SHALL BE GRAFFED IN: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed CONTRARY TO NATURE into a good olive tree: HOW MUCH MORE SHALL THESE, WHICH BE THE NATURAL BRANCHES, BE GRAFFED INTO THEIR OWN OLIVE TREE?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness IN PART is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,

"There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but AS TOUCHING THE ELECTION (the CHOSEN seed of Israel's race), THEY ARE BELOVED FOR THE FATHERS' (THE PATRIARCHS') SAKES. 29 For THE GIFTS AND CALLING OF GOD ARE WITHOUT REPENTANCE. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so HAVE THESE ALSO NOW NOT BELIEVED, THAT THROUGH YOUR MERCY THEY ALSO MAY OBTAIN MERCY. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Now, think about this for a moment: If the Resurrection doesn't occur until Yeshua` ("Jesus") comes back, then the children of Israel need to be received; however, their blindness IN PART now will last until the fulness of the Gentiles (non-children-of-Israel) comes in. However, they will only obtain mercy THROUGH the mercy of the GENTILE BELIEVERS! So, if they are, as you say, "an unbelieving and God-hating people," WHOSE FAULT IS THAT?! GENTILE BELIEVERS ARE NOT DOING THEIR PART TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

Edited February 4, 2021 by Retrobyter
to add detailed references

[Retrobyter]

On 2/2/2021 at 12:58 AM, DeighAnn said:

Wasn't it you that said that the "spirit" goes to heaven and the body stays in the earth?  Wasn't that what this was all about?  Because if not, I OWE YOU A HUGE APOLOGY, Because that was what lead up to a one day resurrection of 6 to 8 billion bodies.  So

I'll hold it right here, but it wont matter.   Old wine skins.  Can't put any new wine in em, can you?

Shalom, DeighAnn.

No, I wouldn't have said it that way. The "spirit," the "breath" of the human being, does go back into the "skies" to mix with the other gases of the atmosphere (which is what "shaamaayim" means) while the body stays in the ground (which is to what "sh'owl" refers), but these are both PHYSICAL references!

Regarding old wine skins, that's why we use glass bottles today. However, there's always the ability to grab some NEW wine skins for NEW grape juice so they can age together!

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Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

You know what babes don't know?  

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

You're mixing metaphors. The "babes" in Matthew 11:25 is the Greek word "neepiois" which refers to children who can't talk, yet. But, the "little children" in Matthew 18:3 is "paidion" which refers to "little children in training." That's someone old enough for schooling!

Another point is that Matthew 18:3 uses the phrase "the kingdom of heaven" in English but the Greek phrase is "teen basileian toon ouranoon" which translates to "the kingdom of-the skies" OR "the kingdom FROM-the skies." See, in Koine Greek, there are two cases that have the same ending: the genitive case and the ablative case. The genitive case shows POSSESSION. The ablative case shows ORIGIN. In Classical Greek, they were one and the same case. I believe that this should be thought of as the ablative case and should be translated as "the kingdom FROM-the skies." The Kingdom shall come from the skies, because the KING shall come from the skies!

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John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow Me afterwards.

John 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

John 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

ALL GOTTA DIE SOMETIME.  

Yes, Peter DID follow Yeshua` in death when he was hung upside down on a cross; so, yes "all gotta die sometime."

However, your reference to John 14:1-3 is NOT about Yeshua` taking us to His Father's house! He didn't say that! It's about Yeshua` receiving us to Himself WHEN HE RETURNS TO EARTH! However, John also told us in the Revelation that the Father's house, the New Jerusalem, COMES HERE after the Millennium, the Great White Throne Judgment, and the remaking of the earth and sky!

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We are HIS CHILDREN.  HE created us as we are.  THAT'S HOW HE LIKES US. 

We BECOME His children when we are born again! Not everyone IS a "child of God!"

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I don't know if a bunch of people 'don't like themselves' or their bodies or whatever but GOD DOES.  He created everyone of us.  

No. Technically, God created Adam. He watches over those who will become His children in their mother's womb, but He doesn't "create" us; He FORMS us! It's an entirely different word in Hebrew! It's "asah" not "bara'!"

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OUR FATHER,  has a plan and it ISN'T ABOUT THE WORDS and the details OF THE WORDS, it the details the words convey, the STORY.  

Yes, but our Father conveyed the STORY in the WORDS! So, it's important that we get the words right so we get the story right!

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What if INDEED, WE are the angels?  That's way spiritual.
LIFE DOESN'T END, doesn't get put on pause, it changes.  

Well, since "angel" comes from the Greek word "aggelos" and "aggelos" means a "messenger," then, yes, we SHOULD be God's "messengers!" BUT, we're not "transformed" into "supernatural beings" that are typically called "angels" today! That's not biblical at all.

And, LIFE DOES END! We all DIE! HOWEVER, God, being a God of AWESOME power, is able to bring us BACK TO LIFE IN THE RESURRECTION!

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But anyway, 

As far as God  has given you so far.  But I would watch those kinds of statements,  knowing that GOD IS.  Think that all this 'looking' old and 'testing' old and old 'heavens' are just some part of a big elaborate deception on His part?  And that God created Satan on day 8 and then made up a back story to throw in a little confusion?    And so we don't really RETURN to Him?   OK

No, haSatan (Hebrew for "the Enemy") was created on Day 6. Look at how Revelation describes him:

Revelation 20:1-3 (KJV)

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Thus, the "dragon" (the "lizard," possibly winged) was CALLED the "old serpent" or the "original snake!" And, he is also CALLED the Devil (which means "Slanderer") and Satan (which is Hebrew for "Enemy"). But, He IS a REPTILE, not an "angel!"

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Revelation 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
Revelation 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Revelation 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.Revelation 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

The words mean "no one in the sky." That can refer to people on top of the mountains, as well as people in airplanes! It's NOT "God's abode!"

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Revelation 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

This also doesn't happen "in heaven" as though we're talking about "God's abode!"

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CAN YOU IMAGINE IF THE ONLY WAY FOR SOMEONE TO UNDERSTAND GODS WORD WAS IF THEY COULD DECIFER EVERY LAST Noun verb tense etc.  Shoot, God would have at least a dozen out of every billion make it to immortality.    
No wonder the WISDOM OF MAN doesn't go very well with Gods Truth.

No wonder the Jews didn't recognize Jesus, God walking amongst them.  Had the 'language' down to a science though.  But never got that Spirit did they?  

This is just ridiculous and fake. You're not being honest! Don't you use a version of the Scriptures, like the King James Version? It took men of intelligence and GODLY humility to translate the Scriptures from the German or the Greek into English that you can understand and memorize! However, God MADE SURE that EVERYONE would have a copy of His Word to understand Him and obey Him! And, no, the translators are NOT the only ones to understand God's Word or "make it to immortality." Time to get off your soapbox. We NEED godly men and women to translate Scripture!

Edited February 4, 2021 by Retrobyter
wrong gender for "kingdom"

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, DeighAnn.

No, I wouldn't have said it that way. The "spirit," the "breath" of the human being, does go back into the "skies" to mix with the other gases of the atmosphere (which is what "shaamaayim" means) while the body stays in the ground (which is to what "sh'owl" refers), but these are both PHYSICAL references!

Regarding old wine skins, that's why we use glass bottles today. However, there's always the ability to grab some NEW wine skins for NEW grape juice so they can age together!

You're mixing metaphors. The "babes" in Matthew 11:25 is the Greek word "neepiois" which refers to children who can't talk, yet. But, the "little children" in Matthew 18:3 is "paidion" which refers to "little children in training." That's someone old enough for schooling!

Another point is that Matthew 18:3 uses the phrase "the kingdom of heaven" in English but the Greek phrase is "teen basileian toon ouranoon" which translates to "the kingdom of-the skies" OR "the kingdom FROM-the skies." See, in Koine Greek, there are two cases that have the same ending: the genitive case and the ablative case. The genitive case shows POSSESSION. The ablative case shows ORIGIN. In Classical Greek, they were one and the same case. I believe that this should be thought of as the ablative case and should be translated as "the kingdom FROM-the skies." The Kingdom shall come from the skies, because the KING shall come from the skies!

Yes, Peter DID follow Yeshua` in death when he was hung upside down on a cross; so, yes "all gotta die sometime."

However, your reference to John 14:1-3 is NOT about Yeshua` taking us to His Father's house! He didn't say that! It's about Yeshua` receiving us to Himself WHEN HE RETURNS TO EARTH! However, John also told us in the Revelation that the Father's house, the New Jerusalem, COMES HERE after the Millennium, the Great White Throne Judgment, and the remaking of the earth and sky!

We BECOME His children when we are born again! Not everyone IS a "child of God!"

No. Technically, God created Adam. He watches over those who will become His children in their mother's womb, but He doesn't "create" us; He FORMS us! It's an entirely different word in Hebrew! It's "asah" not "bara'!"

Yes, but our Father conveyed the STORY in the WORDS! So, it's important that we get the words right so we get the story right!

Well, since "angel" comes from the Greek word "aggelos" and "aggelos" means a "messenger," then, yes, we SHOULD be God's "messengers!" BUT, we're not "transformed" into "supernatural beings" that are typically called "angels" today! That's not biblical at all.

And, LIFE DOES END! We all DIE! HOWEVER, God, being a God of AWESOME power, is able to bring us BACK TO LIFE IN THE RESURRECTION!

No, haSatan (Hebrew for "the Enemy") was created on Day 6. Look at how Revelation describes him:

Revelation 20:1-3 (KJV)

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Thus, the "dragon" (the "lizard," possibly winged) was CALLED the "old serpent" or the "original snake!" And, he is also CALLED the Devil (which means "Slanderer") and Satan (which is Hebrew for "Enemy"). But, He IS a REPTILE, not an "angel!"

The words mean "no one in the sky." That can refer to people on top of the mountains, as well as people in airplanes! It's NOT "God's abode!"

This also doesn't happen "in heaven" as though we're talking about "God's abode!"

This is just ridiculous and fake. You're not being honest! Don't you use a version of the Scriptures, like the King James Version? It took men of intelligence and GODLY humility to translate the Scriptures from the German or the Greek into English that you can understand and memorize! However, God MADE SURE that EVERYONE would have a copy of His Word to understand Him and obey Him! And, no, the translators are NOT the only ones to understand God's Word or "make it to immortality." Time to get off your soapbox. We NEED godly men and women to translate Scripture!

And after all that it still comes down to

How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

 

[Retrobyter]

16 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

And after all that it still comes down to

How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

Shalom, DeighAnn.

Yes, but read on:

1 Corinthians 15:

35 But some man will say,

"How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened (brought back to life), except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.
It is sown in corruption (Greek: fthora = "decay");
it is raised in incorruption (Greek: aftharsia = "immortality"): 
43 It is sown in dishonour (Greek: atimia = "disgrace");
it is raised in glory (Greek: doxee = "fame"):
it is sown in weakness (Greek: astheneia = "feebleness");
it is raised in power (Greek: dunamei = "strength"): 
44 It is sown a natural body (Greek: sooma psuchikon = "an-air-breathing body");
it is raised a spiritual body (Greek: sooma pneumatikon = "an-air-blasting body").

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written,

"The first man Adam was made a living soul (Greek: psucheen zoosan = "a living air-breathing-creature")";
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (Greek: pneuma zoo-opoioun = "a life-giving wind"). 

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 

47 The first man is of the earth (Greek: ek gees = "out/from [the]-earth"),
earthy (Greek: choikos = "made-of-dust"):
the second man is the Lord from heaven (Greek: ex ouranou = "out/from [the]-sky". 
48 As is the earthy (Greek: ho choikos = "the-[one] made-of-dust",
such are they also that are earthy (Greek: hoi choikoi = "those made-of-dust"):
and as is the heavenly (Greek: ho epouranios = "the-[one] from-above-the-sky"),
such are they also that are heavenly (Greek: hoi epouranioi = "the-[ones] from-above-the-sky"). 
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy (Greek: kathoos eforesamen teen eikona tou choikou = "as we-have-carried the mirror-like-representation of-the-[one] made-of-dust"),
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly (Greek: foresomen kai teen eikona tou epouraniou = "we-shall-carry also the mirror-like-representation of-the-[One] from-above-the-sky").

When "they come," it's not from "Heaven"; it's from the GROUND! Study these Greek words and phrases. They should give you a new perspective on the Resurrection.

[DeighAnn]

On 2/4/2021 at 8:46 PM, Retrobyter said:

the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (Greek: pneuma zoo-opoioun = "a life-giving wind"). 

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 

The WORD became FLESH.  Wasn't made like the ANGELS first, but like man in the flesh

 

[DeighAnn]

On 2/4/2021 at 8:46 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, DeighAnn.

Yes, but read on:

1 Corinthians 15:

35 But some man will say,

"How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened (brought back to life), except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.
It is sown in corruption (Greek: fthora = "decay");
it is raised in incorruption (Greek: aftharsia = "immortality"): 
43 It is sown in dishonour (Greek: atimia = "disgrace");
it is raised in glory (Greek: doxee = "fame"):
it is sown in weakness (Greek: astheneia = "feebleness");
it is raised in power (Greek: dunamei = "strength"): 
44 It is sown a natural body (Greek: sooma psuchikon = "an-air-breathing body");
it is raised a spiritual body (Greek: sooma pneumatikon = "an-air-blasting body").

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written,

"The first man Adam was made a living soul (Greek: psucheen zoosan = "a living air-breathing-creature")";
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (Greek: pneuma zoo-opoioun = "a life-giving wind"). 

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 

47 The first man is of the earth (Greek: ek gees = "out/from [the]-earth"),
earthy (Greek: choikos = "made-of-dust"):
the second man is the Lord from heaven (Greek: ex ouranou = "out/from [the]-sky". 
48 As is the earthy (Greek: ho choikos = "the-[one] made-of-dust",
such are they also that are earthy (Greek: hoi choikoi = "those made-of-dust"):
and as is the heavenly (Greek: ho epouranios = "the-[one] from-above-the-sky"),
such are they also that are heavenly (Greek: hoi epouranioi = "the-[ones] from-above-the-sky"). 
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy (Greek: kathoos eforesamen teen eikona tou choikou = "as we-have-carried the mirror-like-representation of-the-[one] made-of-dust"),
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly (Greek: foresomen kai teen eikona tou epouraniou = "we-shall-carry also the mirror-like-representation of-the-[One] from-above-the-sky").

When "they come," it's not from "Heaven"; it's from the GROUND! Study these Greek words and phrases. They should give you a new perspective on the Resurrection.

AGAIN,

I MISSED THE PART THAT SAYS THERE IS A PERIOD WHERE WE ARE BODYLESS.

OR ANYTHING BUT THE FLESH GOES INTO THE GRAVE/GROUND/EARTH/RETURNS TO DUST.  



THE FLESH DIES, WE (SPIRIT) GOES BACK TO THE LORD 
AKA  RAISED, RESURRECTED.

THIS IS IMMEDIATE.     TODAY...AND THE ANGELS CAME....

WITH WHAT BODY ARE WE RAISED? THE SPIRITUAL BODY.  

HOW DO WE KNOW?  THE FLESH HAS BEEN SOWN INTO THE GROUND, THE SPIRITUAL QUICKENED.  


IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE, AS IT WILL BE FOR THOSE WHO ARE HERE ON EARTH WHEN CHRIST RETURNS.  

THOSE WHO RETURN WITH HIM ARE REUNITED WITH THOSE WHO ENDURED TO THE END, NOW ALL IN  SPIRITUAL BODIES.  

HOW SIMPLE IS THAT?

 

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The WORD became FLESH.  Wasn't made like the ANGELS first, but like man in the flesh

 

Shalom, DeighAnn.

PRECISELY! Nor were we! We didn't exist until we were formed in our mother's womb (uterus). Just the same, God KNEW US BEFORE WE WERE FORMED because He sees all of time at the same time! He is both eternal and omniscient! He DECLARED (not just "knew") the end from the beginning!

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

AGAIN,

I MISSED THE PART THAT SAYS THERE IS A PERIOD WHERE WE ARE BODYLESS.
 

That's because, technically, we are NEVER "body-less!" Since we ARE our bodies, then we never leave them when we die! We ARE them!

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

OR ANYTHING BUT THE FLESH GOES INTO THE GRAVE/GROUND/EARTH/RETURNS TO DUST.  
 

Again, that's because we ARE the flesh that goes into the grave and returns to dust! And, again, that's why the Resurrection is SO IMPORTANT!

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

THE FLESH DIES, WE (SPIRIT) GOES BACK TO THE LORD 
AKA  RAISED, RESURRECTED.

Nope. This is TOTALLY unbiblical! While the BREATH (the RUWACH or the PNEUMA) goes back to God who gave it, that's NOT US! And, that is MOST DEFINITELY NOT the "Resurrection!"

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

THIS IS IMMEDIATE.     TODAY...AND THE ANGELS CAME....

WITH WHAT BODY ARE WE RAISED? THE SPIRITUAL BODY.  

HOW DO WE KNOW?  THE FLESH HAS BEEN SOWN INTO THE GROUND, THE SPIRITUAL QUICKENED.  

This is just poor reasoning. Yeshua` was resurrected back in the First Century A.D. and afterward He showed Himself to His disciples. Why do you think it's so important that there was an EMPTY TOMB?!

Luke 24:13-43 (KJV)

13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs. 14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened. 15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. 16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him. 17 And he said unto them,

"What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?"

18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him,

"Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?"

19 And he said unto them,

"What things?"

And they said unto him,

"Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: 20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. 21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done. 22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre; 23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive. 24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not."

25 Then he said unto them,

"O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 26 Ought not Christ (the Messiah) to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?"

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. 28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further. 29 But they constrained him, saying,

"Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent."

And he went in to tarry with them. 30And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. 31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight. 

32 And they said one to another,

"Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?"

33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them, 34 Saying,

"The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon!"

35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread. 36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them,

"Peace be unto you."

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit (a ghost). 38 And he said unto them,

"Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold (Look at) my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle (touch; feel) me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them,

"Have ye here any meat (food)?" 

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

He may have been able to do more, like disappear and reappear, but HE WAS STILL A BODY WITH FLESH AND BONES!

And, we read:

1 John 3:1-3 (KJV)

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Thus, OUR Resurrection will be like HIS Resurrection! Therefore, we, too, shall have flesh and bones and be able to eat, to talk, and to walk, as He did! However, we, too, shall be able to do more than we can do right now! We need to be our old physical bodies so that we can be TRANSFORMED in the Resurrection into the SUPER-POWERFUL Resurrection bodies!

The word "spiritual" is MUCH TOO NEBULOUS a term to be of any definitive value. The term "spiritual" has come to mean ...

Quote

SPIRITUAL

Spiritual is the adjective for spirit.

Spiritual may also refer to:

Religion

Spirituality, a concern with matters of the spirit

Spiritual attack, an attack by Satan and his demons on a Christian

Spiritual body, a Christian term for resurrection

Spiritual but not religious, a religious categorization

Spiritual bypass, a "tendency to use spiritual ideas and practices to sidestep or avoid facing unresolved emotional issues, psychological wounds, and unfinished developmental tasks"

Spiritual Communion, a Christian practice of desiring union with Jesus Christ in the Eucharist

Spiritual crisis, a form of identity crisis where an individual experiences drastic changes to their meaning system typically because of a spontaneous spiritual experience

Spiritual death, absence of spirituality

Spiritual development, the development of the personality towards a religious or spiritual desired better personality

Spiritual direction, the practice of being with people as they attempt to deepen their relationship with the divine, or to learn and grow in their own personal spirituality

Spiritual distress, a disturbance in a person's belief system

Spiritual ecology, a field in religion and environmentalism

Spiritual energy, a form of energy in spirituality and alternative medicine

Spiritual enlightenment, the "full comprehension of a situation"

Spiritual evolution, the philosophical, theological, esoteric or spiritual idea that nature and human beings evolve

Spiritual experience, a subjective experience in religion

Spiritual formation, the process and practices by which a person may progress in one's spiritual or religious life or to a movement in Protestantism

Spiritual gift, a supernatural power given by God

Spiritual healing, a form of alternative medicine

Spiritual intelligence, a term used by some philosophers, psychologists, and developmental theorists to indicate spiritual parallels with intelligence quotient and emotional quotient

Spiritual literature, a genre of literature, in which usually involves the personal spiritual experience of the author

Spiritual materialism, a Tibetan Buddhist concept

Spiritual naturalism, a naturalist approach to spiritual ways of looking at the world

Spiritual opportunism, the exploitation of spiritual ideas for personal gain, partisan interests or selfish motives

Spiritual philosophy, a philosophy pertaining to spirituality

Spiritual possession, a concept of many religions, where it is believed that a spirit may take temporary control of a human body

Spiritual practice, a way of exercising spirituality

Spiritual psychology, a school of psychology that integrates the spiritual and transcendent aspects of the human experience with the framework of modern psychology

Spiritual reading, a practice of reading books and articles about spirituality with the purpose of growing in holiness

Spiritual retreat, a place or state dedicated to spirituality

Spiritual test, a life situation, provided by God, to evaluate man's individual moral character and obedience to his laws

Spiritual transformation, a fundamental change in a person's sacred or spiritual life

Spiritual warfare, the Christian concept of fighting against the work of preternatural evil forces

Spiritual warrior, a term used in Tibetan Buddhism for one who combats the ignorance (avidyā)

Spirituals, a branch of the 13th-century Franciscans espousing poverty as obligatory

Spiritual Franciscans, extreme proponents of the rule of Saint Francis of Assisi, especially with regard to poverty

Lords Spiritual, the clergy of the established Church of England who serve in the House of Lords

Spiritual Baptists, a syncretic Afro-American religion that combines elements of traditional African religion with Christianity

Spiritual Christianity, a Christian denomination in Russia

Spiritual church movement, a group of Spiritualist churches and Spiritualist denominations

Music

Spiritual (music), an African American song, usually with a Christian religious text

The Spiritual, a 1969 album by the Art Ensemble of Chicago

"Spiritual", a song by Katy Perry from her album Prism

This is just crazy! The word has NO meaning anymore! People have abused this word in every way imaginable! I hate the word because it is a WASTE of speech! It's just a way that people will try to sound more pious or holy! EVERY TIME one wants to use the word, he or she needs to DEFINE the term and then use that word "spiritual" EXACTLY as he or she defined it! Otherwise, it's completely open to the listener's interpretation!

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE, AS IT WILL BE FOR THOSE WHO ARE HERE ON EARTH WHEN CHRIST RETURNS.  

THOSE WHO RETURN WITH HIM ARE REUNITED WITH THOSE WHO ENDURED TO THE END, NOW ALL IN  SPIRITUAL BODIES.  

HOW SIMPLE IS THAT?

It's misdirected. First, the "in the twinkling of an eye" is about the TRANSFORMATION, not the Resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (KJV)

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 

Second, notice that this occurs AT THE LAST TRUMP or the LAST TRUMPETING, NOT at death!

You're reading this wrongly because you're reading INTO the Scriptures what you WANT it to say! You've got to read it, allowing the author (and the Author) to say to you what HE wants to say! You've got to get the truth OUT OF the Scriptures, not put your "truth" INTO the Scriptures.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

PRECISELY! Nor were we! We didn't exist until we were formed in our mother's womb (uterus). Just the same, God KNEW US BEFORE WE WERE FORMED because He sees all of time at the same time! He is both eternal and omniscient! He DECLARED (not just "knew") the end from the beginning!

I can understand how that is the truth you believe at this present time in your journey.  "GOD" sees all of time at the same time.  IS THAT WRITTEN?  OR IS THERE SOMETHING WRITTEN TO WHICH YOU ASCRIBE THAT TO?

GOD knew us before we were formed and we know that BECAUSE OF WHAT IS WRITTEN, NOT because of what we 'think'. 

THOSE WORDS WRITTEN are just not yet understood by all, YET.  THAT DOESN'T MAKE THEM ANY LESS TRUE.  KEEP holding on tight to PRESENT BELIEFS and NO NEW TRUTH WILL EVER COME YOUR WAY. Just a remaining where you are.  God won't be able to use you though.  

When was the last time God gave you a NEW truth?  What beliefs have matured, DEEPENED, widened and shown you A BIGGER PICTURE?
 

Daniel 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by Him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half;

AND WHEN HE SHALL HAVE ACCOMPLISHED TO SCATTER THE POWER OF THE HOLY PEOPLE, all these things shall be finished.

Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

WELL, the time of the end is UPON US, what truths will be opened up to you? 
 IS YOUR KNOWLEDGE INCREASING?  Are you OPEN TO RECEIVING? 

 I do not ASCRIBE my own notions to what is written.  There is no 'fill in the blanks' by what I think.  I hope this is true for all of us, because the pride and the wisdom of MAN and maybe even more the prude ness of us, is very blinding to HIS truth. 


Only God knows but maybe today
 

Genesis 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

Genesis 28:13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

Genesis 28:14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Genesis 28:15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

On 2/16/2021 at 1:39 PM, DeighAnn said:

AGAIN,

I MISSED THE PART THAT SAYS THERE IS A PERIOD WHERE WE ARE BODYLESS.
 

That's because, technically, we are NEVER "body-less!" Since we ARE our bodies, then we never leave them when we die! We ARE them!

Quote

OR ANYTHING BUT THE FLESH GOES INTO THE GRAVE/GROUND/EARTH/RETURNS TO DUST.  
 

Again, that's because we ARE the flesh that goes into the grave and returns to dust! And, again, that's why the Resurrection is SO IMPORTANT!

SO THE CELESTIAL BODY GOES INTO THE DIRT?????