What is a "soul?"

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, Waggles said:

This testimony is from a man in our church well known to us all. His medical episode made the local newspaper.

He was dead for over half-an-hour and God raised him up and brought him back to life without intellectual impairment. 

Shalom, Waggles.

That's WONDERFUL! I'm so glad that he's alright! And, as I said before, I believe God performs miracles! 

Remember this: Miracles in this life are, at best, TEMPORARY! If our Master Yeshua` doesn't return soon enough for him, he will truly die and stay dead, as all men and women and sometimes boys and girls, do, until the Resurrection. It's just the "dropping of the other shoe."

I'm just telling you, that IF he gave you a story of going to heaven, be wary. That story is not verified by Scripture, even if Scripture is quoted for his story. God doesn't support any such story; He supports HIS WORD! Take the story with a "grain of salt." While what he said MAY have been true, we are not guaranteed that it IS true. To be accurate, we are WARNED not to fall head over heels about such stories!

Paul warned the Galatians,

Galatians 1:6-9 (KJV)

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ (the Messiah's good news). 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The gist of what Paul was saying is that God's Word, in this case the good news that the Messiah taught, TAKES PRECEDENT OVER other messages, even if they came from an "angel" - that is, a "heavenly messenger." THAT'S the principle behind this warning.

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

1Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Why would WE need to stay in the ground 'and grow' like a plant when we can be changed in the twinkling of an eye?

Shalom, DeighAnn.

It's just an analogy. The body going into the ground is likened to the seed, and the body coming out of the ground is likened to the growing, more mature plant! But, didn't you notice? It is CHANGED from one body to the next!

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

But I understand that is how you see Paul's teaching,

BUT I see Paul's teaching having to do with 2 BODIES and it's

 Bye Bye flesh/terrestrial/earthy body,

HELLO spiritual/celestial/heavenly body.  

Oh, I'm with you on that one! I see it that way, too. but remember: it is GOD'S last trumpeting, not a "last trumpeting" just for you personally!

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Who knows?  Maybe what we believe to be truth,  will be OUR truth and if that is the case then 

you stay in the dirt or turn to 'vapor' or   ??  IDK, and wait till Christ returns and 're animates' that decaying flesh body

and I will 

do a quick pass through death, immediately receive my new body, say Adios to that dead never to be seen again flesh, and go to that mansion in the sky to return with Him and watch your re-animation. 

Sorry, but Scripture doesn't support that view.

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Would I be correct saying you are just as happy and comfortable with your beliefs as you are uncomfortable with mine?  Just wondering if we have the same comfort/discomfort feelings.

I'd be more comfortable if the Lord would just come back! I just feel like you're missing something, something I haven't said or haven't said correctly to make the difference. I am thoroughly convinced in what I say because I believe it was the Ruwach haQodesh who gave me the insight and changed my mind to my old beliefs and helped me to understand that I had been wrong for most of my life!

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 6:48 I am that bread of life.

John 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

John 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Why did you skip John 6:52?

John 6:52 (KJV)

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

The Jews asked a valid question, and it was key to the understanding that Yeshua` wasn't talking about eating His literal flesh!

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

SINCE WE HAVE ALREADY COVERED THAT, LET'S NOT REPEAT IT, OK?

Okay, but I don't think you understand the "last day," yet.

And, why did you skip John 6:55 and 56?

John 6:55-56 (KJV)

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

Instead of backing off, Yeshua` DOUBLED DOWN!

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

John 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

John 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Again, you skipped John 6:59-61. Let's see what they say:

John 6:59-61 (KJV)

59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said,

"This is an hard saying; who can hear it?"

61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them,

"Doth this offend you? ...

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not."

For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
John 6:65 And he said,

"Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."

Do you believe that 'eternal life' begins after resurrection only? another way,  Can one receive eternal life and still die/sleep? or hopefully you understand what I am trying to ask, I just can't find the words right now.  

YES! Eternal life is life for eternity! That doesn't begin until one can live eternally! We require the CHANGE that Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians 15:52.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV)

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Right now, we have the PROMISE of eternal life, not the life itself! We still DIE! But, we have the "down payment" of the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym, giving us an assurance of the future eternal life found in the Resurrection when the Master Yeshua` the Messiah returns.

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Sorry, I can't remember what your reply was, if you would refresh my memory and  Is there a 'last day' scripture written after Christ is crucified?

Sure, there's LOTS of them. All of the following verses use the Greek word "eschastos" meaning "last" or "end": Acts 2:17; 1 Corinthians 15:26, 52; 2 Timothy 3:1; Hebrews 1:2; James 5:3; 1 Peter 1:5, 20; 2 Peter 2:20; 3:3; 1 John 2:18 (twice); Jude 18; Revelation 15:1; and 21:9, although the last two are actually about the "last trumpet" and the "last bowl of plagues." All of these talk about eat "last day" or the "last days."

[DeighAnn]

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

It's just an analogy. The body going into the ground is likened to the seed, and the body coming out of the ground is likened to the growing, more mature plant! But, didn't you notice? It is CHANGED from one body to the next!

Yes, it is just an analogy, I agree.  But don't you think it would be better to 'plant' that seed and do all that growing when we first come to the Lord so that by the time, this 'seed' goes in the ground a nice mature plant has already been growing so that that old wrinkled useless seed husk can be happily left behind and that 'plant' is already all gospel armored up and ready to get to work for the Lords Day?  

I like where you are going with this. 'FROM ONE BODY TO THE NEXT'.  PERFECT.

One earthy, one heavenly.  GOD is soooo Wise.  



 

[Retrobyter]

1 minute ago, DeighAnn said:

Yes, it is just an analogy, I agree.  But don't you think it would be better to 'plant' that seed and do all that growing when we first come to the Lord so that by the time, this 'seed' goes in the ground a nice mature plant has already been growing so that that old wrinkled useless seed husk can be happily left behind and that 'plant' is already all gospel armored up and ready to get to work for the Lords Day?  

Shalom, DeighAnn.

No! Where's the "victory" in that?! You ARE your body! Your air-breathing body IS your "soul!" You ARE that "old, wrinkled, useless, seed husk!" You don't "HAVE a body!" It's that "old, wrinkled, useless, seed husk" that must be TRANSFORMED!

READ IT AGAIN!

1 Corinthians 15:50-57 (KJV)

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery (a secret); We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP (TRUMPETING): for the trumpet shall sound, and THE DEAD [ONES] SHALL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED. 53 For THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and THIS MORTAL MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY. 54 So when THIS CORRUPTIBLE SHALL HAVE PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and THIS MORTAL SHALL HAVE PUT ON IMMORTALITY, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,

"DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY!" (Isaiah 25:8)

55 "O DEATH, WHERE IS THY STING? 
O GRAVE, WHERE IS THY VICTORY?" (Hosea 13:14) 

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

1 minute ago, DeighAnn said:

I like where you are going with this. 'FROM ONE BODY TO THE NEXT'.  PERFECT.

One earthy, one heavenly.  GOD is soooo Wise.  

Perhaps, I should have re-phrased that: "FROM ONE BODY CHANGED INTO THE NEXT."

[DeighAnn]

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

I'd be more comfortable if the Lord would just come back! I just feel like you're missing something, something I haven't said or haven't said correctly to make the difference. I am thoroughly convinced in what I say because I believe it was the Ruwach haQodesh who gave me the insight and changed my mind to my old beliefs and helped me to understand that I had been wrong for most of my life!

I don't think it makes much of a difference we are either going to die/sleep and wake up when Christ and His armies return 

or

we are going to have our flesh die, the 'spirit/soul' pass through death/change bodies and go be with Christ where He is and then return with Him.  

Either way, we can't do nothing about it. 

I like to think about being IN HEAVEN, the moment the Lord meets JUST ME. To fall down before the Throne and worship and give thanks.   I like to think that is how He greeted my loved ones already.  I can't wait to see everyone and wait in line to talk to the prophets and do whatever,  till the last of the host to be born in the flesh have. Then to get on that horse and follow Christ to the earth, to WATCH Satan be destroyed by the Brightness of the Lord, to watch those with the mark of the beast die their first death,  and to witness those who are left alive 'change' and we all come together 'THE KINGDOM OF GOD' truly stepping back onto the earth.  EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW!!!   I can't wait to hear the teachings/instructions, watch/help with the preparations being made for  the Lords return/the Lords Day/'millennium'.   To be reigning with Christ, doing Gods Will, sitting in judgment, those are huge responsibilities.   God does EVERYTHING orderly.  Good lessons to be learned from the feeding of the masses.  ORDERLY.  That much we can absolutely be sure of.  

That really hit me when I learned that we are divided into 'rank' as in military when reading about the first fruits and how they are raised.   

For me, pondering on all that works for me.  Pondering on going to sleep to be woken up in the middle of this huge event NO ONE knowing anything about what is going on makes no sense to me.  From what I've learned about God , it just seems to much like chaos, 14 billion souls in brand new bodies all at once without a clue of what has gone on some for 6000 years.  AT LEAST we have history to study.  We are living near the end so WE have a clue.  THOSE who went to sleep when there was basically a garden and sheep to tend....I can't even ponder on what that state of mind would be.  Live your 900 years, go to sleep and wake up with 14 billion others who all are in a different state of knowledge and experience, or those who never made it out of the womb.  TALK ABOUT LOST

No, I am going to stick with what I believe.  WE are with God before we come here and we go back to be with God when we leave.  GOD has a kingdom FILLLED with souls, that is why He created us in the first place.  That kingdom is going to come back to earth.  WE  the 'us' part 'our spirit/ soul' no matter which body we are occupying,  doesn't change.  But it takes a body, spirit, soul to be a 'being'. 

[DeighAnn]

7 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, DeighAnn.

No! Where's the "victory" in that?! You ARE your body! Your air-breathing body IS your "soul!" You ARE that "old, wrinkled, useless, seed husk!" You don't "HAVE a body!" It's that "old, wrinkled, useless, seed husk" that must be TRANSFORMED!

READ IT AGAIN!

1 Corinthians 15:50-57 (KJV)

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery (a secret); We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP (TRUMPETING): for the trumpet shall sound, and THE DEAD [ONES] SHALL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED. 53 For THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and THIS MORTAL MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY. 54 So when THIS CORRUPTIBLE SHALL HAVE PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and THIS MORTAL SHALL HAVE PUT ON IMMORTALITY, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,

"DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY!" (Isaiah 25:8)

55 "O DEATH, WHERE IS THY STING? 
O GRAVE, WHERE IS THY VICTORY?" (Hosea 13:14) 

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Perhaps, I should have re-phrased that: "FROM ONE BODY CHANGED INTO THE NEXT."

FLESH, it is made from the DIRT OF THE EARTH.  WE are covered in dirt.  

THE  "WE" OF US IS COVERED IN DIRT

WHERE DOES THE DIRT GO WHEN WE DIE???

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:

EVER SEE A BODY THAT HAS BEEN IN THE EARTH FOR A LONG TIME?  NOTICE THEY CAN FIND LOTS OF BONES BUT NO FLESH?  CAUSE THE FLESH RETURNS TO THE EARTH 

WHILE THE 'WE'

(THE ANGEL (the celestial body)  THAT DESCENDED DOWN THAT LADDER has been placed by God and is going to be COVERED WITH DIRT IN THE MOTHERS WOMB. 

Who created all souls?  Do you think that a mommy and daddy are creating 'a soul'?  NO, that soul/person/being/spirit/child of God

 IS RETUNING TO GOD WHO GAVE IT 

(those 2 becoming 'one flesh' is the beginning of the knitting of the DIRT onto that newly placed soul.  THINK SPIRITUAL)  

RETURNS.  


and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.  (soul/spirit  the life of you, the heart and mind and body of you, BE IT earthly or heavenly)




HEAVENLY BODY FOR HEAVEN, EARTHy BODY FOR EARTH, HEAVENLY BODY FOR HEAVEN.  

[DeighAnn]

21 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

No! Where's the "victory" in that?!

The victory is in that the grave can't hold us. We don't STAY in death/sleep.

CHRIST ROSE. 
IN A BODY. 
the FIRST fruits of many, OUR EXAMPLE.  The One who leads, shows us the way, goes first to prepare a place for us so that we will be with Him WHERE HE IS and He is in HEAVEN.  

The graves opened  AND PEOPLE WERE SEEN.  THEN THEY FOLLOWED THE FIRST FRUIT AND THE FIRST FRUIT WENT TO HEAVEN.  






IF WE BELIEVE CHRIST ROSE (i think of it as A NEW UNIVERSAL LAW CAME INTO EXISTENCE)

[Riverwalker]

26 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

No! Where's the "victory" in that?! You ARE your body! Your air-breathing body IS your "soul!" You ARE that "old, wrinkled, useless, seed husk!" You don't "HAVE a body!" It's that "old, wrinkled, useless, seed husk" that must be TRANSFORMED!

No we are not the body. The body is just the earth suit we used to interact with the physical world.  We are Spirits, we possess a soul (mind will and emotion)  and we live in a body. a body of corrupt flesh that cannot and will not be redeemed. 

On resurrection day The earth will be new, the heavens will be new and our bodies will be new

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a [m]mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

But the bible says we are already seated in heavenly places with God. From the time we die, to resurrection we exist as spirits

2 Corinthians 5:8

We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

[Waggles]

James 5:19  My brethren, if any among you err from the truth, and one convert him; 
5:20  know that who converts a sinner from the error of his way shall save his soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins. 

soul = G5590 ψυχή  psuchē
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
Total KJV occurrences: 104

soul = body + consciousness (our spirit)  

1Cor 2:11  For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

[Waggles]

Job 7:11  “Therefore I will not restrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.

Job 27:2  “As God lives, who has taken away my right, and the Almighty, who has made my soul bitter, 
27:3  as long as my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils, 

Job 33:4  The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Psalm 142:3  When my spirit faints within me, you know my way! In the path where I walk they have hidden a trap for me.

Proverbs 20:27  The spirit of man is the lamp of the LORD, searching all his innermost parts.

Ecc 3:20  All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return. 
3:21  Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth? 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Waggles