What do you think about the decrease in Christianity and increase in atheism in the US?

[missmuffet]

On 10/28/2020 at 9:31 AM, FluffyBunny. said:

 

https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2015/05/PF_15.05.05_RLS2_1_310px.png

 

Hello,

how do you feel about the decrease in Christianity and the increase in atheism in the US? Do you think society will become worse, better or stay around the same?

It does not surprise me. 

 

[JTC]

On 10/28/2020 at 12:31 PM, FluffyBunny. said:

how do you feel about the decrease in Christianity and the increase in atheism in the US? Do you think society will become worse, better or stay around the same?

I think society will get worse. Although, for awhile it appeared to stay the same. Then came the coronavirus and the pandemic.

I've always thought this virus has 2 main purposes. 1. it's meant to turn certain people back to God, and other people to seek God, maybe for the 1st time. What I mean is, I remember when I wasn't a believer but I felt like I was supposed to be. I needed something to pull me over to God's side. Luckily it wasn't a virus. But since we have free will, suppose this doesn't happen.  Then 2. I think this virus is meant to punish mankind. So the whole world will get much worse. God has always done things like this. I usually think of Babylon conquering Israel because they forgot Him. That resulted in 70 yrs of punishment, at least.

   So I think if enough people call out to God, or maybe if Christians stop becoming atheists a vaccine will suddenly be found, these lock-downs will end, and society will suddenly get back to normal. But if mankind doesn't start to call out to God we might have to contend with this virus until everyone who is currently an adult dies, from either sickness or natural causes. I mean we can't know for sure. In Genesis Israel roamed in the desert 40 yrs because of their disrespect for God. Then the next time God did a major punishment it lasted 70 yrs.

   I wish I could say I see the world turning to God but I don't.

[David1701]

21 hours ago, Josheb said:

I think you and I may have discussed this before (although I may be thinking of another David). I blame dispensationalism. Marx, followed by Darwin (as far as their writings go, not their births), followed by Freud certainly proved to be an unholy triumvirate but had the Church been engaged in the culture and the market place of ideas we could have easily addressed every single one of those philosophies. The apocalyptic restoration movements proved to be exactly the opposite of what they claimed to be, further dividing the body of Christ, separating themselves from the society in which they were supposed to be light and salt. Once their end-of-the world prognostications proved incorrect they lost the whole Church credibility so by the time Russell looked to Christianity for answers the idea that Jesus and Paul were sorely mistaken was easy to accept by both intellectuals and commoner. 

In Britain the fatal blow was the war to end all wars that didn't do any such thing. It saw horrendous depravity in Europe, though and the nobility of man in the eyes of British/European identity couldn't withstand the evidence. Follow that up with fascism/Naziism, the holocaust, and Existentialism's angst and the nails are in the coffin for Britain. 

American identity (a hybrid mix of rebellion, individuality, and communal welfare), and an ocean insulated the US from that but our ego suffered in Viet Nam. We came face to face with our own depravity and undeniable ability to fail, culminating in the decision it is okay to kill unborn babies. Blessedly we still had a vital Church but it was too busy being divided between the competing theologies of dispensationalism and the rest of Protestantism. This was when Schaeffer arose with a call to re-engage the marketplace and for a time the Church responded. America has always resisted socialism, existentialism, and open godlessness. I don't think we're done resisting. Taking a nap perhaps. 

The problem is internal, not external, imo. There's simply no way the Church can continue to get away with decade after decade after decade of false prognosticators and have anyone believe we have a brain, much less a rational one and a cogent worldview to accompany it. 

I don't recall discussing this with you; but I do appreciate the input now.

I know that part of the problem, in Britain and Europe, was seeing professing Christians killing each other, in two world wars, and churches praying for their country to defeat the other.  This caused a lot of disillusionment.

Britain and Europe also saw a great deal of destruction and suffering (London, in particular, was pummelled by the German bombers, in WWII) and this caused many professing Christians to turn away from God.  I suppose that what this did, was to expose the large number of "Christians" who were not born again; but it also affected society in general.

I agree with much of what you posted.  I hope (wishful thinking) that Covid 19 is used to bring about a measure of revival to the churches; but, although there are some signs of that in parts of the U.S., I have not heard about anything similar in the U.K..

[David1701]

5 hours ago, Josheb said:

There is a lot that's incorrect in that post - scripturally, scientifically, and logically - but I don't have time to parse through it all. Natural selection and microevolution are consistent with each other. Mutations are not "overwhelmingly" deleterious. That's just factually incorrect. It's not statistically incorrect, either. Appeals to authority are logically fallacious, as are red herring (no one said faith is blind) and nothing I wrote should be construed to be in conflict with Hebrews 11:1. If you read tht post to be in such conflict then the post was misunderstood. 

I will say this in agreement: secular evolutionists do operate with a blind unsubstantiated faith they do not acknowledge. The fact of history - scientific history - is that the supposed "facts" of science radically change about every 100-150 years. We don't believe in the four humours or spontaneous generation anymore, even though beliefs used to be held as scientific fact. They turned out to be neither. 

Interestingly, some atheistic evolutionists do believe in spontaneous generation, because they have no other way to account for the first life supposedly arising from non-life.

[JTC]

14 hours ago, David1701 said:

I know that part of the problem, in Britain and Europe, was seeing professing Christians killing each other, in two world wars, and churches praying for their country to defeat the other. 

Odd, that makes it sound like even back then the average Christian didn't read the OT very much. If you read the OT you will see God's people always pray for His help before a battle.

   I read the OT a lot lately. I suppose I spent my first 30 yrs as a believer almost always reading the NT. Then 1 day it dawned on me that I knew next to nothing of the OT. I decided to change that. However, based on many posts I've read here on Worthy, the average believer doesn't read the OT almost at all.

[David1701]

10 hours ago, Josheb said:

The spontaneous generation to which I was referring is the "scientific theory" held in the 17th and 18th centuries wherein it was believed organisms arose from unrelated conditions, like flies come from spoiled meat. This was eventually disproven by scientists like Louis Pasteur and John Tyndall in the 19th century. 

What you're describing is abiogenesis, the question of how life arises from nothing. This is a porblem shared by both theism and non-theism. To simply say, "God did it," is not explanatory. It is a faith-statement. In that regard it is not any different than say a big explosion occurred begetting life. Science proves to be just as faith-based as religion (despite scientists' occasional protests to the contrary). 

 

 

.

Abiogenesis is just another way of saying "spontaneous generation" (I know about the those old, laughable experiments and that they are nothing like today's beliefs).

Abiogenesis is not the belief that life arises from nothing, it is the belief that life arose from non-life, which is a requirement for atheistic evolutionary suppositions.

God is life; so, to say that God created life is to say that life came from life and that abiogenesis is false.

Atheistic evolution is based on unbelief, not faith; it is based on desperate attempts to concoct schemes that exclude God from the picture, so that they do not have to believe in his existence.

[David1701]

11 minutes ago, JTC said:

Odd, that makes it sound like even back then the average Christian didn't read the OT very much. If you read the OT you will see God's people always pray for His help before a battle.

   I read the OT a lot lately. I suppose I spent my first 30 yrs as a believer almost always reading the NT. Then 1 day it dawned on me that I knew next to nothing of the OT. I decided to change that. However, based on many posts I've read here on Worthy, the average believer doesn't read the OT almost at all.

We have been in the New Covenant since the day of Pentecost.

[JTC]

17 minutes ago, David1701 said:

We have been in the New Covenant since the day of Pentecost.

   We all know this.

   But what do you think this means, that we ought not to know what the OT says. How do you think you can understand the NT correctly if  you don't understand the OT correctly also. Do you not know the NT is built upon the OT.

   Now I understand where you're coming from David.

[RonaldBruno]

On 10/28/2020 at 11:31 AM, FluffyBunny. said:

 

https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2015/05/PF_15.05.05_RLS2_1_310px.png

 

Hello,

how do you feel about the decrease in Christianity and the increase in atheism in the US? Do you think society will become worse, better or stay around the same?

After 160 years of the TOE being forcefed through the educatuinal system, atheism has not grown. Still only 10% of the population worldwide are atheists. All this theory has done is confuse and distort the traditional Biblical view of creation. So now we see almost half of Christianity  adopt a Theistic-Evolutionary view. To them, they must distort Genesis to conform with this view --  as if God started things out in a more simple form and then let evolution take its course. Might as well omit Genesis with that view.

 He made every living organism finished. However, changes occur ( adaptive mechanisms) within each kind. Each organism was designed this way, but not that one kind could evolve into something entirely different, like a reptile into a bird.

Btw, Christianity is right on track - if you believe that GOD is sovereign! He has written history and His plan is perfect, factoring in all our mistakes and flaws. His Book of life was completed long ago and so all who are in it, including those who haven't been born yet, will be saved.

So no worries. Evil is increasing but His elect will be called and they will respond. If salvation was left to man to choose God without God's help, we would all fail. He orchestrates the whole process, prepares our path, lifts the veil of blindness and enables us to come to Him. 

 

[David1701]

11 minutes ago, Drafido said:

If the worldwide population of atheists is only 10%, how come the internet is filled to the brim with atheists commenting everywhere?  Somehow I am not convinced with this 10% figure.  It seems more likely that the statistics are skewed somehow.

Or that the people who post are the most outspoken.  There is usually a "silent majority", whose views are seldom heard.