The election

[other one]

May not happen but it should.  Depends on the Lord really.

[Henry_iain]

I will never forget how Trump referred to Africa. I can't even quote it here. Why should I side with someone that refers to my home in that way? 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Henry_iain

[OneLight]

Does anyone really expect anything good from man in such a fallen world?

[FrankIeCip]

I consider myself a conservative independent. I am obviously pro life but as others stated, Trump wants to be a dictator. He never says a bad word against Putin or Kim and he may profess to be a Christian but his actions do not support that. He’s a womanizer and “grabs women by their private parts” and then brags about it. He wants to stay in the WH because when he’s out he has a lot of lawsuits and charges to answer to. Obviously I don’t know the mans heart but his actions speak for themselves. Just my opinion and 2 cents. 

[OneLight]

28 minutes ago, Momma_Bear said:

No I actually don't... I don't expect anything different from a rich man who has no regard for anyone but himself... This I understand.

What I don't understand is how so many Christians have supported him at the cost of ignoring his appalling behaviour. This I do not understand.

From where I sit... what I am seeing is that many of the American Christians seem to be saying that God chose Mr. Trump to win the 2016 election... and that He also promised them a second term. This I do not understand.

Perhaps God is not liking what transpired the first term and He has changed His mind? My little brain is not able to wrap itself around a nation that thinks God meddles in politics. 

It's like no one is telling the Emperor that HE has NO CLOTHES. 

I keep saying I am finished here... I think I shall take a break from this site until the election results are confirmed and certified. I feel like I am watching a cliff hanger horror movie. 

What I do know is that there are consequences for behaviour... everywhere and with everyone... I don't know why Christians seem to think it doesn't count for Mr. Trump.

Anyways... Be blessed everyone. This Canadian has said too much already. 

Time to think happy thoughts.

I don't take any side in this argument, but will offer a verse that may help you have faith that God is still in control.  Romans 13:1

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

We may not understand one iota what God is up to, but that does not mean we cannot trust Him to see it through to the end.  No matter how hard you search, you will not find one person who is following God and willing to take the helm of any nation.  Ask yourself, did Jesus get involved in the political arena of His time?  That should be your guiding post.

[GandalfTheWise]

Here's my take on what I've been seeing.

As a disclaimer, my US political leanings are best described as Libertarian.  In one oversimplified sentence, I think that federal gov't overreach in the US needs to be reigned in with most political power being in the hands of local and mid-size government (meaning roughly county to state level) with a reduction of government control over many things and a reduction of the federal government scope.

As far as I can tell, here's my current best guess in describing the US political scene.  The real control of things in the US is in the Washington DC/New York City region by people whose background tends to be Ivy league schools and come from families that have known each other for generations and have various degrees of ties to the old money families.  Many influential employees, managers, and directors of large financial firms, banks,  news outlets, and various federal government agencies have connections of various sorts with each other.  They think they are smarter and better than everyone else and entitled to run the country and ultimately the world for their benefit.   By controlling the US media, finance system, and ultimately the US military, they can do just about anything they want to around the world.   I'll just refer to them as the establishment elite.   This is not some secret group in black hoods meeting at midnight.  This is just a bunch of people who grew up in the same system, share a common worldview, have a lot of social connections, look out for their own interests, and via various forms of nepotism, get influential positions in many places.  It is to their benefit to consolidate as much power as possible at the federal level to make it easier to run things.   My impression is that something similar is happening with the EU but I haven't been following that closely enough to have a good sense of that.

Politicians in the US (at the federal level and to an increasing degree at the state level) ultimately get elected by having two things.  The first is the support of the establishment elite.  This means favorable news coverage and publicity, lots of money for campaigning, and the expertise and manpower to navigate the complicated system of election laws that make it virtually impossible for 3rd party candidates to have a chance.   In order to win elections, the elite needs to create voting blocs whom they can target and emotionally manipulate.  People with similar demographics are targeted to make them scared and angry with other demographic groups.  In other words, they only "care" about whether you have lots of money and favors you can do them or you are part of some demographic group that will give them votes.   Also, as long as they can get various groups terrified and enraged with each other, no one will notice who is pulling the strings.

For the elite, poor people (meaning pretty much all of us) are pawns they use to increase their wealth and influence either as employees and or in the military.  Oversimplifying things here for space:   Ivy league business schools have lead to the decimation of the US economy at a local level.  They taught "managers" how to increase shareholder value.  In other words, how to gut a company in the short term to make stock prices go up and how to run mergers that you can get paid huge fees to merge two competitive companies in a single less efficient one.  Pocket the money now, go on to the next job, and leave a trail of unemployed people and empty buildings behind.  I've lived in the midwest my entire life and have watched the economy slowly decline.   Federal legislation and oversight of various things often benefits large corporations by requiring things that only established companies can easily afford to do.  Gov't reactions to COVID have accelerated this process by moving years of economic decline into weeks and months.  My impression is that the elites have no clue what is happening to the masses since their comfortable lives in DC/NYC  have been unaffected.  This is not even getting into US military, economic, and financial influence around the world that expands the wealth and influence of this group.

I think that this is the backdrop to really understand Trump support.   Trump campaigned as a populist for the masses against the system of elites.  It's an open question if he is a populist or merely saw a huge untapped business opportunity that the elites had been overlooking.   He gave voice to tens of millions of frustrated people who saw the elites as out of touch parasites in DC and NYC who were slowly taking away their jobs, resources,  and way of life.  As far as I can tell, many of the elites saw him as a critical threat to the status quo and pulled out all the stops to vilify and get rid of him.  I've never seen such radicalization of opposition to someone in the four decades I've been following US politics.  I don't think it was so much Trump they despised but rather what he represented, people who were fed up with the elite.

The biggest thing I'm hoping for is that the establishment elites will pull out the welcome mat from the radical marxists who've been allowed an oversized voice lately in academia, social media, political protest, and the burgeoning far left in the US.  That's the only thing that deeply concerns me.  There is simply no place for Christians with those people in charge except as an underground church.  I'm hoping the establishment elite merely saw them as useful idiots to create a lot of unrest to help get rid of Trump rather than actual allies who will get a seat at the table.  

 

 

[Alive]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

I don't take any side in this argument, but will offer a verse that may help you have faith that God is still in control.  Romans 13:1

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

We may not understand one iota what God is up to, but that does not mean we cannot trust Him to see it through to the end.  No matter how hard you search, you will not find one person who is following God and willing to take the helm of any nation.  Ask yourself, did Jesus get involved in the political arena of His time?  That should be your guiding post.

Amen Brother, Amen.

[FrankIeCip]

28And we know that ALL things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 

[CSLJ]

Appears the separating of his sheep from the goats is an ongoing process, God raises up and takes down rulers and has raised up President Trump for such a time as this.  The vitriol and lies about our President from the enemies kingdom betrays to which kingdom we belong.

best wishes

[OneLight]

11 hours ago, OneLight said:

I don't take any side in this argument, but will offer a verse that may help you have faith that God is still in control.  Romans 13:1

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

We may not understand one iota what God is up to, but that does not mean we cannot trust Him to see it through to the end.  No matter how hard you search, you will not find one person who is following God and willing to take the helm of any nation.  Ask yourself, did Jesus get involved in the political arena of His time?  That should be your guiding post.

I copied my whole comment over so you can address it all.  Continued below ...

11 hours ago, Momma_Bear said:

I saw this comment in my email...and felt the need to address this.

I would like to clarify that it is not God I am having a problem with... I totally believe and KNOW that HE is in control.... As for the results of the US elections... I have no problem with the results... Whether it is Mr. Trump or Mr. Biden... I don't really care... as I am not affected by either.  I would prefer a Biden administration if only for the peace and assurance of civilized communication. I have tired of the drama that seems to surround Mr. Trump and his ego. But I am most aware that my thoughts or prayers  will not change the results of this election. I'm absolutely OK with that.

This Trump phenomenon has intrigued me... and baffled me... and I confess that partaking in this discussion has gotten my blood a bit too hot... which is why I am retreating. 

I have come to the conclusion that this is a mystery that I will not be able to figure out. I am regretful that I let this drag for 4 years... as it has truly taken up far too much of my precious time.

Where I live... there are consequences to each and everyone's behaviour. It seems that in America... if God chooses the president... he is free and clear of all kinds of unacceptable nastiness. 

 

 

I'm glad you don't have an issue with God, but, God did choose Trump to win the election.  If it were not His plan, Trump would of lost.  Scripture tells us this.  Having faith in God goes beyond our understanding and into the unknown, as in the reason why Trump won is really unknown, but he did and we need to fully trust God to bring about His purpose for Trump being president.  Somewhere in this whole mess is the answer.  We just have to have faith and patience until this reason is exposed.   If Trump looses and Biden is president, there again has to be a reason why God brought this forth.  Yet, laying what these two very different men fight for on the table for all to see will shine light on why some follow one over the other, which shows what they also hold as a path they want this country to go down.  Neither, in my opinion, is in full agreement with scripture.