What is the "Apostasy" mentioned at 2 Thessalonians 2:3?

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, Leonardo Von said:

Thinking about this, I concluded that the working of error (2Th 2:11) is the false resurrection of the seventh head of the sea beast (Rev 13:3) which will eliminate any doubt in the heart of those whose name isn't written in the book of life. 

From this moment they will believe blindly that the antichrist is the Christ (the greatest of all apostasies, which is mentioned here ).

Yes. Some think the apostasy is a falling away over time, maybe 2000 years. Some think it's the modern age of excess and lagging church attendance. I'm sure all that is moving away from what God thinks is good and right and it's certainly 'falling away'.

Like you I see a defection of mass proportion. And the apostasy is here:

"And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the Book of Life belonging to the Lamb who was slain."

 

 

[Selah7]

Perhaps the great apostasy is sudden.  One minute you are following the true Christ; the next minute you are worshiping the false christ because you have been deceived.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (NASB)

3 No one is to deceive you in any way! For it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

selah.

 

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, Selah7 said:

For it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction

Hi again

I think you are right and this tells us the WHEN.

I also agree it will be sudden and those who 'fall away' don't have a clue it is happening.  

One thing that has never happened (during this age) is Satan in person and full in charge, ruling his own kingdom. We know it happened before and he was really good at it so I think that is why it is called 'great' tribulation, not for the 'super mega death event for all Christians' but because the worldwide 'super mega everyone deceived' part.  

Eve wasn't scared and had no clue until the Lord called upon them and only then did they know he REALLY HAD caused 'death' to come upon them.   Jesus wasn't scared either, nor tempted when talking with Satan.  I think Adam and Eve are our biggest clue as to what it will be like.  Coming in, SPEAKING words that SEEM to be so holy, and right.  Looking walking talking the part perfectly, not like it is the first time for him, how many crowns did he rule over the first time?  BUT the deception is already running rampant.  Only thing stopping 'it', the great falling away, from happening right now is Satan not being here.  D

 

[DeighAnn]

10 hours ago, Josheb said:

When did satan rule a kingdom of his own, in person, and in full charge? Is that a reference to John 12:31's "prince of this world," or Ephesians 2:2's, "prince of the power of the air"? Can you clarify that for me?

I don't understand when we don't agree on anything
but just going to take it on faith again that Gods wants it done.
And prince of this world is now as is and ruler of this world and prince of the power of the air and walking the valley of the shadow of death and also future


BECAUSE THIS HAD TO TAKE PLACE
PREVIOUSLY TO THIS EDEN
Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

THIS also and IN heaven
Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
 

Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

THIS ON EARTH
Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

SEVEN IN HEAVEN, till iniquity was found...(probably made God so mad He destroyed the earth rendering it null and void you think?)

10 ON THE EARTH (and I think there is something about 3 of these but can't ...)

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

PREVIOUSLY

Ezekiel 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Ezekiel 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

Ezekiel 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

PREVIOUS AND FUTURE
Ezekiel 28:4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:

Ezekiel 28:5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:


D



 

[DeighAnn]

12 hours ago, Josheb said:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-17
"Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,  that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.  Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,  who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.  Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?  And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.  For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now

Why stop there Josheb?  Why not the 'you' ONLY applying to the person it was first said to AND not those to which it was repeated, as they would NOT BE THE 'YOU' ANY MORE THAN WE ARE.    How could it go past the very moment it was said, when some of the YOUS would die in the next hours, days, weeks.   Why didn't the you stop at Pentecost?  Christ had returned.  The temple destruction was still 40 years away so how did all those yous get involved

What scriptures make the YOU continue to and then stop in 70AD only?  Just wondering ....D

[Selah7]

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Why stop there Josheb?  Why not the 'you' ONLY applying to the person it was first said to AND not those to which it was repeated, as they would NOT BE THE 'YOU' ANY MORE THAN WE ARE.    How could it go past the very moment it was said, when some of the YOUS would die in the next hours, days, weeks.   Why didn't the you stop at Pentecost?  Christ had returned.  The temple destruction was still 40 years away so how did all those yous get involved

What scriptures make the YOU continue to and then stop in 70AD only?  Just wondering ....D

Yes.  It’s happening:
Amos 8:11 "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:"

. . .

II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is [the Lord is just] at hand."

Paul is saying, don't let anyone trouble you [confuse you], and tell you that the "day of Christ" is at hand. The "day of Christ” is the day when Jesus Christ will return to earth and gather His saints to Him. This gathering will happen at the sounding of the seventh trumpet (the last trumpet).

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" (Mark 13:14)

Jesus Christ is not gathering anyone to Him, nor is He coming here to earth, except there be a falling away first. The word for "falling away" in the Greek is "apostasy.”  Jesus told us in His revelation to John, in Revelation 9:11, that "Apollyon" is one of Satan's names, and this name is derived from the word apostasy.

. . .
In Mark 13, Jesus told His disciples (and us) the seven seals, and these seals are also recorded in the Book of Revelation. They are the seals/signs that will mark the end of this world (age) we are now living in.  

Matthew 24:3 "And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of "Thy coming, and the end of the world."

Jesus is giving us the seven events (seals) that must come to pass before the end of this age and the return of Christ.

selah . . .

Edited August 10, 2021 by Selah7

[DeighAnn]

On 8/10/2021 at 7:40 AM, Josheb said:

So the answer to my question is there is no such kingdom and that position is arrived at only through a very highly inferential reading of scripture, and one that blatantly contradicts what God's word clearly, plainly, explicitly undeniably, irrefutably states? 

What part do you see the Holy Spirit playing in leading us to Gods Truth? 

Just because something SEEMS to contradict what one might see as what Gods word clearly STATES, doesn't mean ANYTHING as far as HOW THE HOLY SPIRIT LEADS AND DIRECTS ME. What you THINK of as 'plainly, explicitly undeniably, irrefutably' contradictions are not.  It is as simple as that.   

I am beginning to wonder what God thinks of those who 'believe they understand' what is STATED ripping and tearing apart those lead by the Holy Spirit to a different understanding.  Funny how it rarely goes the other way.  

AGAIN, JUST BECAUSE we don't agree, doesn't mean your interpretation of what is STATED IS correct. And these same old responses, so repetitive and  have become such 'a given' part of your responses they have lost all meaning. 
 
You know who else believed they KNEW what was STATED by studying and deciphering THE WORDS written and it turned out to not to be either good or accurate in helping them live or see and understand prophecy?  Those under the FIRST COVENANT, which WAS REPLACED by a MORE GLORIOUS one in which the INDWELLING of the Holy Spirit could LEAD WHERE THE WORDS NEVER COULD.  THOSE who THOUGHT they knew the words of God COULDN'T EVEN see the Messiah walking amongst them.  EVEN Herod knew something was afoot.  ALL 2 and under were killed.  JESUS FULFILLED every single WORD written, and they completely MISSED THE TRUTH ALSO.  

1 Corinthians 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1 Corinthians 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

1 Corinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was NOT with enticing words OF MAN'S WISDOM but in demonstration of THE SPIRIT AND OF POWER

1 Corinthians 2:5 THAT YOUR FAITH SHOULD NOT STAND IN THE WISDOM OF MEN BUT THE POWER OF GOD. 

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


SO THE LACK of an answer to your QUESTION LIES IN your not acknowledging the simple truths found in the differences in what is WRITTEN

1.  IN HEAVEN VS ON EARTH (sand and sea)  
2.  What happened VS what will happen
3.  how it functioned VS how it will function

All clearly stated.  None of them MY words or MY thoughts or MY beliefs alone. 

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, WHO WAS TO RULE ALL NATIONS WITH A ROD OF IRON: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

no doubts as to who this is and where He presently is and so    -      ALL PAST


 

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

PRESENT



Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
FUTURE

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.


Also future

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.



Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

[DeighAnn]

On 8/10/2021 at 7:40 AM, Josheb said:

God gave Adam and Eve power and authority to rule over all the animals. He gave them power and authority over everything that creeps on the earth, not just the garden. The serpent was an animal, a living thing living in the garden. Adam and Eve had power and authority over the serpent. 

Seriously???  Where does it STATE that the Serpent was an 'animal' or a 'reptile'? 

Let's see how many 'snakes' do you know THAT ARE SUBTIL?

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

HOW MANY TALK?  ASK QUESTIONS?  KNOW WHAT GOD HAS SAID?  

Genesis 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

HOW MANY SNAKES ENGAGE IN CONVERSATION OF ANY SORT WITH PEOPLE?

Genesis 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

HOW MANY SNAKES KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN GOD IS DISOBEYED?  OR KNOW THAT GOD CAN BE DISOBEYED?

Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

HOW MANY SNAKES KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE WHEN THEY DO DISOBEY?

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

Genesis 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

Genesis 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

Genesis 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

HOW MANY SNAKES DID GOD GIVE VOCAL CORDS TO?

Genesis 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

HOW MANY SNAKES KNOW HOW TO 'BEGUILE' PEOPLE?

Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

WHAT ENMITY IS THERE BETWEEN A SNAKES 'SEED' AND HER 'SEED'?  HOW DOES A 'SNAKE' BRUISE?  
 

ISN'T there a word used to describe this VERY type of writing?  How one can be convinced given the entire context that the 'serpent' is an 'animal' is beyond me.  

And surely by the time Revelation is read that possibility has ceased to be.  

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[DeighAnn]

On 8/10/2021 at 7:40 AM, Josheb said:

Satan has NEVER been free. He has ALWAYS been held in eternal bonds of darkness awaiting his day of judgment. 

Not before iniquity was found in him.  

Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

So,  if you would/could when we are having these discussions, stick to the subject and not change the 'POINT' of the subject to 'the entire scope of all that is'.  It just MAKES IT all CONFUSING.  

WE ALL KNOW GOD AS THE ALPHA AND OMEGA, THE ALL POWERFUL ALMIGHTY CREATOR OF ALL.  BUT WE ALSO KNOW THAT GOD HAS MADE PROMISES THAT PREVENT HIM FROM USING THOSE POWERS AND THAT HE HAS GIVEN AUTHORITY and POWERS TO OTHERS along the way THAT only MAY SEEM TO GO AGAINST THAT,  BUT DOESN'T.  

So EVERY time you bring it up it REALLY becomes off TOPIC,  unless of course, the topic is the OVERALL general truth.  

[DeighAnn]

On 8/10/2021 at 7:40 AM, Josheb said:

That is what the scriptures actually, factually, undeniably irrefutable state. I don't have to "interpret", infer, embellish, add to, or subtract from a single word to state what scripture states. 

Which again, as I pointed out,  was incorrect.  Satan has not always been in eternal bonds and besides the Eze that I quoted,

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

AGAIN, THIS is all, ULTIMATELY, under Gods control.