Pre tribulation question

[Mike Mclees]

According to pre trib believers when the Middle East nations agree to peace with Israel that is the beginning of the final seven years and those who are of the right church that believes this doctrine will be swept up before any antichrist persecution and  seven years of Gods wrath. Any that are left behind will face 7 terrible years. What happens after the seven years is completed is still left to  the imagination I guess. Have I stated it as you  believe? This is as it was when I was in a pre Trib church and believed every  word.

As time and maturity came things started to not add up. Now I don't like being long winded. So i  will get write to the first question that hit me just last week. There is more of course. OK the peace agreement was made According to pre trib belief you  are now gone to heaven. I was reading from Revelation Chapter 13. This is a scary chapter where we read about the Beast from the sea and the beast of the earth. The antichrist and the false prophet Also in this chapter comes a dire warning to the believers in Christ. We are not to take the Mark of the beast or you shall be dammed. This warning is for the believers after the antichrist declares he is god which is 3&1/2 years after the church is already gone. Hmmm Sounds strange right?

Edited November 11, 2020 by Mike Mclees

[R. Hartono]

1 hour ago, Mike Mclees said:

According to pre trib believers when the Middle East nations agree to peace with Israel that is the beginning of the final seven years and those who are of the right church that believes this doctrine will be swept up before any antichrist persecution and  seven years of Gods wrath. Any that are left behind will face 7 terrible years. What happens after the seven years is completed is still left to  the imagination I guess. Have I stated it as you  believe? This is as it was when I was in a pre Trib church and believed every  word.

As time and maturity came things started to not add up. Now I don't like being long winded. So i  will get write to the first question that hit me just last week. There is more of course. OK the peace agreement was made According to pre trib belief you  are now gone to heaven. I was reading from Revelation Chapter 13. This is a scary chapter where we read about the Beast from the sea and the beast of the earth. The antichrist and the false prophet Also in this chapter comes a dire warning to the believers in Christ. We are not to take the Mark of the beast or you shall be dammed. This warning is for the believers after the antichrist declares he is god which is 3&1/2 years after the church is already gone. Hmmm Sounds strange right?

After the 7 years will be the Jesus 2nd coming to Armageddon battle.

The foolish virgins left behind has renewed their oil n shud they dare to refuse the beast they shall be called as saints.

There will also come repentance from those who believe the Gospel preached by the 2 Witnesses n th 144000 who replaced the church at the fullness of gentiles.

You better post this kind in Eschatology.

[Revelation Man]

8 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

According to pre trib believers when the Middle East nations agree to peace with Israel that is the beginning of the final seven years and those who are of the right church that believes this doctrine will be swept up before any antichrist persecution and  seven years of Gods wrath.

The above is just not true/correct. The Middle East Nations do no such thing per se. Its the Anti-Christ that has AGREEMENTS (Covenants in Greek means Agreements) with Israel and THE MANY. See Dan. 8:25, he DESTROYS MANY by peace. See Daniel 9:27 he makes an AGREEMENT with MANY, it never just says Israel. And in Daniel 11:40-43 he conquers MANY COUNTRIES. 

The HE is the King/President of the E.U. He's born in Greece, he's an Assyrian (Turk) and he comes to power in the European Union.

All Christians will be Raptured, unless they are like the 5 Brides that have NO OIL (Holy Spirit) and thus they will indeed not make the Wedding. They can come to Jesus afterwards, as all can, but they will have to lay down their lives OR worship the Beast. (Martyrs)

8 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

Any that are left behind will face 7 terrible years. What happens after the seven years is completed is still left to  the imagination I guess. Have I stated it as you  believe? This is as it was when I was in a pre Trib church and believed every  word.

The first 3.5 years is the FAKE PEACE. The Last 3.5 years is the Bests rule PLUS God's Wrath happening at the same time.

8 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

As time and maturity came things started to not add up. Now I don't like being long winded. So i  will get write to the first question that hit me just last week. There is more of course. OK the peace agreement was made According to pre trib belief you  are now gone to heaven. I was reading from Revelation Chapter 13. This is a scary chapter where we read about the Beast from the sea and the beast of the earth. The antichrist and the false prophet Also in this chapter comes a dire warning to the believers in Christ. We are not to take the Mark of the beast or you shall be dammed. This warning is for the believers after the antichrist declares he is god which is 3&1/2 years after the church is already gone. Hmmm Sounds strange right?

No..........sounds like there will be Christians on each side of the Rapture, those who come BY FAITH ALONE, will still be received AFTER the Rapture. That sound perfectly reasonable. 

[Mike Mclees]

11 hours ago, Josheb said:

Doesn't this belong in the eschatology or prophesy board? Maybe the mods could move it before the thread gets big.

 

Your question is "Does this sound strange?"? 

 

Yes, it does sound strange. So what? There's a lot of strange stuff in the Bible. Maybe the question can be articulated a little better.

 

 

.

What i find strange is the i could care less attitude about truth or not. Do we believe the word of God contradicts itself? could you tell God He messed up. Would you put yourself and your opinion before Him?

[Mike Mclees]

5 minutes ago, Josheb said:

You "find it strange you could care less attitude about truth or not"? Might want to check the grammar there because that does not make sense. 

I do not. I cannot speak to what other individuals believe  without evidence but I am unaware of any formal Christian position, or statement asserting the Bible has contradictions. 

I have done so. Always in error. Eventually figured it out. 

Again: I have often done so but was always in error doing so. I eventually figured it out: He's correct and I am not and that problem is a reflection of the problem to be solved (sin). 

 

What does any of this have to do with the "pre-tribulation question"? Matthew 24 makes it quite clear there is no "pre-tribulation" anything. Jesus stated quite plainly his disciples would be "handed over" to tribulation and experience it. They would not be removed before hand. He also stated quite plainly it is after the tribulation that his sign appears. He even gave an analogy that dramatically illustrated this when he referenced Noah. In the days of Noah it was those taken away who died and it was those who remained on earth who continued to live in a covenant relationship with their Creator. 

So if the inquiry of this op is to try and understand how pre-trib eschatology works then I'm right with you but I think it is the eschatology that has contradictions, not God's word. 

T he question was meant for pre trib believers.. apparently  we agree there is no pre trib rapture 

[Mike Mclees]

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The above is just not true/correct. The Middle East Nations do no such thing per se. Its the Anti-Christ that has AGREEMENTS (Covenants in Greek means Agreements) with Israel and THE MANY. See Dan. 8:25, he DESTROYS MANY by peace. See Daniel 9:27 he makes an AGREEMENT with MANY, it never just says Israel. And in Daniel 11:40-43 he conquers MANY COUNTRIES. 

The HE is the King/President of the E.U. He's born in Greece, he's an Assyrian (Turk) and he comes to power in the European Union.

All Christians will be Raptured, unless they are like the 5 Brides that have NO OIL (Holy Spirit) and thus they will indeed not make the Wedding. They can come to Jesus afterwards, as all can, but they will have to lay down their lives OR worship the Beast. (Martyrs)

The first 3.5 years is the FAKE PEACE. The Last 3.5 years is the Bests rule PLUS God's Wrath happening at the same time.

No..........sounds like there will be Christians on each side of the Rapture, those who come BY FAITH ALONE, will still be received AFTER the Rapture. That sound perfectly reasonable. 

 

[Ozarkbound]

I believe that The Book of Revalation was a book written by John as a book of hope to those suffering because of their testimony of Christ AT THAT TIME. He tells of what he is shown about Heaven. He tells of the defeat of the enemies by Christ and his angels. 

At the time of it's writing, The Roman empire was oppressing the people. This book is revealing that Christ will overthrow this evil empire and those who stay true to Christ will receive their reward while those who stood against Christ will suffer punishment and death. 

As humans we sometimes relish the exciting and scary which can cause us to inject things which are not present. False teachers understand this about humans and use it to make money or lead others astray.  We should ask ourselve why so many posts on message boards are about Tribulation, Demons etc.  Is this really where our focus should be? There is a whole industry built around the belief that some will be "Left Behind." The money changers know their trade very well.

[missmuffet]

Time will tell.

[Dennis1209]

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The first 3.5 years is the FAKE PEACE. The Last 3.5 years is the Bests rule PLUS God's Wrath happening at the same time.

Out of curiosity and in context of Isaiah 28:, where and when do you place the verses below, pertaining to the tribulation?

 Isaiah 28:15 (KJV) Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Isaiah 28:18 (KJV) And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Revelation 6:8 (KJV) And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

I'm taking it things are not very peaceful [globally], prior to and during the first official 3.5 years of the tribulation. With the sole exception of Israel during the first half of the tribulation. What's your thoughts?

[Revelation Man]

6 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Out of curiosity and in context of Isaiah 28:, where and when do you place the verses below, pertaining to the tribulation?

 Isaiah 28:15 (KJV) Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Isaiah 28:18 (KJV) And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Revelation 6:8 (KJV) And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

I'm taking it things are not very peaceful [globally], prior to and during the first official 3.5 years of the tribulation. With the sole exception of Israel during the first half of the tribulation. What's your thoughts?

You can't always take two passages that have similar wording and assume they are about the same thing. Isaiah 28 is about The Northern Kingdoms sins  in the first 8 verses, then Isaiah talks about Judah, and in the passages you cited, Isaiah is speaking about the Religious leaders, but of course he's not saying the made a covenant with death in the natural, he's talking about the Religious leaders and Gov. leaders hearts being wicked. That is unless they were into Necromancy and actually invoked the gods of the underworld. But this passage has nothing to do with Rev. 6, now of course John used the Old Testament to write much of Revelation like prose. Daniel 5 is used to write Revelation 17, so John does use the prose and TYPES to show shadows. But we know Isaiah 28 is about the Northern Kingdoms judgment and Judah being chastized, along with the Religious leaders. 

I think he DESTROYS by Peace. It may not last the entire 3.5 years, but he will show himself only at the 3.5 year mark in full. My point is, say a woman marries a "SWEET GUY" then suddenly after the wedding he's very domineering and headstrong, well, she has an "IDEA" that all things in Denmark are not up to snuff, but until he actually goes off the deep end she's not sure. I think people will have an idea, but like Hitler, they had no idea just how crazy and violent he really was. 

So, I think he keeps the peace long enough to gain a tactical advantage. Besides, in my opinion, he uses the Asteroid strike in Rev. 8 to go forth conquering, he uses that as a tactical advantage.