Great tribulation

[WilliamL]

3 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

How many times have you seen the Father from your place on earth? I have never seen Him nor have I ever met anyone. Jesus may only be revealed to those who are caught up to Him.

Isaiah saw him on His heavenly throne, as he described in Isaiah 6, so that blows your theory right there. When one is in the Spirit, one can see heavenly things.

7 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

As for the Parousia, Paul speaks of one and Jesus speaks of another one

It can't be "the Parousia" if it takes place multiple times. The means singular. Scripture never declares that there will be multiple Parousias; always spoken of in the singular. Your eschatology notwithstanding.

[WilliamL]

9 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

No, simply human imagination. John has not yet started the 70th week, much less arrived at the second half of the week. 

John says nothing about the 70th week. This, once again, is merely you projecting into the Word your eschatology.

[iamlamad]

Just now, WilliamL said:

John says nothing about the 70th week. This, once again, is merely you projecting into the Word your eschatology.

Not in so many words: "seventieth week" but for those that understand the book, the 70th week is there, with markers. Just so you will know, God marked the 70th week with 7's: 7th seal begins the week, 7th trumpet marks the midpoint, and the 7th vial ends it. See how simple God made it?

[WilliamL]

9 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

for those that understand the book, the 70th week is there

I guess that leaves you out, because you do not understand either the history or the Hebrew of Daniel 9:24-27. But that is a common problem in the Church.

Nothing in that passage has anything to do with the Church, only with Israel.

[iamlamad]

1 minute ago, WilliamL said:

Isaiah saw him on His heavenly throne, as he described in Isaiah 6, so that blows your theory right there. When one is in the Spirit, one can see heavenly things.

It can't be "the Parousia" if it takes place multiple times. The means singular. Scripture never declares that there will be multiple Parousias; always spoken of in the singular. Your eschatology notwithstanding.

Isaiah was having a vision.  So much for your theory. John saw in a vision also, as did Ezekiel. 

I disagree. There will be the coming FOR the saints, and the coming WITH His Saints. 

I must disagree: Scripture tells of TWO more comings.  Many believers can't see two, but many believers can. I don't buy a posttrib rapture. That theory causes far more problems that it solves. 

I believe Paul was the only one to receive a revelation of the rapture of the church. Therefore we should go there to find out about the rapture. If there happens to be another gathering, at a different time, it is not Paul's rapture. I will never understand why people look for rapture information in the gospels. While Jesus was on the earth - the time of the gospels - God had to wait and see of Israel would accept Him as their Messiah. It was not until years after Pentecost that God chose to send Paul to the Gentiles to start the Gentile church of today. The Jewish church died out.  Therefore, in the gospels there is only a hint of the rapture (John 14). 

You and I will continue to disagree, but that OK. There is GREAT division over the end times. 

[iamlamad]

Just now, WilliamL said:

I guess that leaves you out, because you do not understand either the history or the Hebrew of Daniel 9:24-27. But that is a common problem in the Church.

Nothing in that passage has anything to do with the Church, only with Israel.

The 70th week is for Israel. That is why the rapture will take place before the 70th week. 

[WilliamL]

On 1/3/2021 at 1:36 PM, iamlamad said:

There will be the coming FOR the saints, and the coming WITH His Saints. 

I must disagree: Scripture tells of TWO more comings.  Many believers can't see two, but many believers can. I don't buy a posttrib rapture. That theory causes far more problems that it solves. 

Sort of true and false both. Once the Parousia takes place, His Presence will have returned to earth, whether visible or not. You are speaking of the two most widely visible appearances. Just as the Presence of the Lord came to the Israelites and remained with them, whether visible or invisible, so will the Presence be from the Rapture onward.

An intermediate appearance between "the coming FOR the saints, and the coming WITH His Saints" will be when the Lord single-handedly destroys the Edomite army. See my blog post here:

 

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Sort of true and false both. Once the Parousia takes place, His Presence will have returned to earth, whether visible or not. You are speaking of the two most widely visible appearances. Just as the Presence of the Lord came to the Israelites and remained with them, whether visible or invisible, so will the Presence be from the Rapture onward.

An intermediate appearance between "the coming FOR the saints, and the coming WITH His Saints" will be when the Lord single-handedly destroys the Edomite army. See my blog post here:

 

I must disagree: He remains for a moment in the clouds and then returns to heaven. His presense does not remain on earth for 7 years - not that I can read anywhere. Since you believe this, show us scripture.

[WilliamL]

On 1/14/2021 at 5:31 PM, iamlamad said:

I must disagree: He remains for a moment in the clouds and then returns to heaven. His presense does not remain on earth for 7 years - not that I can read anywhere. Since you believe this, show us scripture.

See the blog post noted above for such scriptures. Note than when Jesus destroys the Edomites, He acts entirely alone; which is not the case when He returns with the armies of heaven to fight the Beast and kings of the earth in Rev. 19. These are two different post-Rapture events, both of which take place on earth.

There is no 7-year End Time period prophesied in Scripture. Daniel 9 was fulfilled in the Second Temple era.

Edited January 17, 2021 by WilliamL

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, WilliamL said:

See the blog post noted above for such scriptures. Note than when Jesus destroys the Edomites, He acts entirely alone; which is not the case when He returns with the armies of heaven to fight the Beast and kings of the earth in Rev. 19. These are two different post-Rapture events, both of which take place on earth.

There is no 7-year End Time period prophesied in Scripture. Daniel 9 was fulfilled in the Second Temple era.

Daniel 9 was fulfilled in the Second Temple era.  Since you believe this, there is no reason to continue: we are on two different pages, so to speak - and never the twain shall meet.