ELCA to Change Their Standards

[Guest iamsoblessed]

as far as homosexual marrige....not everyone accepts biblical morality..in a society of many different religions and cultures and moral beliefs, it is wrong to say we cannot base our laws upon moral values.allowing same sex marriage would affect our society significantly..recognizing it would mean social endorsement of homosexuality and that is what homosexuals want..palin and simple..they all ready have the freedom for consenting relationships..but they want the rest of society to state that its accepted..thye are trying to legislate their own version of morality and impose it on the larger of us who disagree..social endorsement will promote this lifestyle..it will be in our schools..in our face..goverment agencies, charitable organizations,and private businesses will be forces to extend all marital provisions to homosexuals..the money spent to support them will be great..churches should be supporting the family unit the way the bible intended as well as out forefathers...if the marriages become legal..then they will demand that our public schools endorse their moral views in the classroom in counseling and in public activities..they will insist that the schoold uphold the law by teaching our children that homosexual marriage is a-okay..last year a student in a texas high school was required to review stories for romance for an english class and was specificlaly instructed to include homosexual romance and treat it favorabally in his report..parents will no longer have the right to protest such practices..christians will no longer have the right to present another view..biblocal mariage is being devalued..in the netherlands and scandinavia where where they offer legal unions for same sex has seen a decline in marriage and a significant increase in babies being born out of wedlck..i fear for waht america will become......

[Guest PraiseTheLordWithMe]

as far as homosexual marrige....not everyone accepts biblical morality..in a society of many different religions and cultures and moral beliefs, it is wrong to say we cannot base our laws upon moral values.allowing same sex marriage would affect our society significantly..recognizing it would mean social endorsement of homosexuality and that is what homosexuals want..palin and simple..they all ready have the freedom for consenting relationships..but they want the rest of society to state that its accepted..thye are trying to legislate their own version of morality and impose it on the larger of us who disagree..social endorsement will promote this lifestyle..it will be in our schools..in our face..goverment agencies, charitable organizations,and private businesses will be forces to extend all marital provisions to homosexuals..the money spent to support them will be great..churches should be supporting the family unit the way the bible intended as well as out forefathers...if the marriages become legal..then they will demand that our public schools endorse their moral views in the classroom in counseling and in public activities..they will insist that the schoold uphold the law by teaching our children that homosexual marriage is a-okay..last year a student in a texas high school was required to review stories for romance for an english class and was specificlaly instructed to include homosexual romance and treat it favorabally in his report..parents will no longer have the right to protest such practices..christians will no longer have the right to present another view..biblocal mariage is being devalued..in the netherlands and scandinavia where where they offer legal unions for same sex has seen a decline in marriage and a significant increase in babies being born out of wedlck..i fear for waht america will become......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You scare me. You talk of homosexuals imposing their view upon the world, i.e. the view that it's okay to be who they are, yet you then impose your own view upon them....you want them to be legislated and banned. They just want to live happily.

[Nanners]

I think I sense Martin Luther squirming in his grave that the thought of this proposal

[serotta]

as far as homosexual marrige....not everyone accepts biblical morality..in a society of many different religions and cultures and moral beliefs, it is wrong to say we cannot base our laws upon moral values.allowing same sex marriage would affect our society significantly..recognizing it would mean social endorsement of homosexuality and that is what homosexuals want..palin and simple..they all ready have the freedom for consenting relationships..but they want the rest of society to state that its accepted..thye are trying to legislate their own version of morality and impose it on the larger of us who disagree..social endorsement will promote this lifestyle..it will be in our schools..in our face..goverment agencies, charitable organizations,and private businesses will be forces to extend all marital provisions to homosexuals..the money spent to support them will be great..churches should be supporting the family unit the way the bible intended as well as out forefathers...if the marriages become legal..then they will demand that our public schools endorse their moral views in the classroom in counseling and in public activities..they will insist that the schoold uphold the law by teaching our children that homosexual marriage is a-okay..last year a student in a texas high school was required to review stories for romance for an english class and was specificlaly instructed to include homosexual romance and treat it favorabally in his report..parents will no longer have the right to protest such practices..christians will no longer have the right to present another view..biblocal mariage is being devalued..in the netherlands and scandinavia where where they offer legal unions for same sex has seen a decline in marriage and a significant increase in babies being born out of wedlck..i fear for waht america will become......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You scare me. You talk of homosexuals imposing their view upon the world, i.e. the view that it's okay to be who they are, yet you then impose your own view upon them....you want them to be legislated and banned. They just want to live happily.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PraiseTheLordWithMe,

It has nothing to do with one's personal view, only with the word of God. Christ makes it very clear that marriage is between one man and one woman, and that any sex outside of that union is a sin.

And I hate to break it to you, but it's not "okay to be who they are". It's not okay to be an unrepentant sinner, and that's what this is all about. We are all sinners, we all have our "besetting sin", and we all need to fight the good fight in turning away from that sin. If you love somone you want the best for them. You don't want them to continue in sin just because it seems so natural to them. Turning away from sexual sin is difficult, but narrow is the path and few choose it. It is important that homosexuals are told that it's not okay to continue in that sin without repentance.

[other one]

as far as homosexual marrige....not everyone accepts biblical morality..in a society of many different religions and cultures and moral beliefs, it is wrong to say we cannot base our laws upon moral values.allowing same sex marriage would affect our society significantly..recognizing it would mean social endorsement of homosexuality and that is what homosexuals want..palin and simple..they all ready have the freedom for consenting relationships..but they want the rest of society to state that its accepted..thye are trying to legislate their own version of morality and impose it on the larger of us who disagree..social endorsement will promote this lifestyle..it will be in our schools..in our face..goverment agencies, charitable organizations,and private businesses will be forces to extend all marital provisions to homosexuals..the money spent to support them will be great..churches should be supporting the family unit the way the bible intended as well as out forefathers...if the marriages become legal..then they will demand that our public schools endorse their moral views in the classroom in counseling and in public activities..they will insist that the schoold uphold the law by teaching our children that homosexual marriage is a-okay..last year a student in a texas high school was required to review stories for romance for an english class and was specificlaly instructed to include homosexual romance and treat it favorabally in his report..parents will no longer have the right to protest such practices..christians will no longer have the right to present another view..biblocal mariage is being devalued..in the netherlands and scandinavia where where they offer legal unions for same sex has seen a decline in marriage and a significant increase in babies being born out of wedlck..i fear for waht america will become......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wonder how many people living in and around Sodom and Gomorrah felt the same way....... Wonder how much good it did them.

[serotta]

Where in the Bible does it specifically forbid homosexuality? I see more gay and lesbian's who act more G-dly than most straight folk.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, you can look at Mat 19:4-5 for how Jesus defined marriage, and then Mat 5:27-30 to see how Jesus views adultery.

then look at 1Tim 1:9,10 and Jude 7 for specific reference to homosexuality.

The Bible makes this perfectly clear for those that desire the truth.

[ayin jade]

Dont forget these verses:

Romans 1:21 Because, knowing God, they did not glorify Him as God, neither were thankful. But they became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing to be wise, they became fools

23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man, and birds, and four-footed animals, and creeping things.

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves.

25 For they changed the truth of God into a lie, and they worshiped and served the created thing more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this cause, God gave them up to dishonorable affections. For even their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature.

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust toward one another; males with males working out shamefulness, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.28 And even as they did not think fit to have God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do the things not right,

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; being full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, evil habits, becoming whisperers,

30 backbiters, haters of God, insolent, proud, braggarts, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 undiscerning, perfidious, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful;

32 who, knowing the righteous order of God, that those practicing such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but have pleasure in those practicing them .

1 Corinthians 6: 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals,

10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

It is quite clear that homosexuality is not what the Lord wants. It is a sin.

[Snow4JC]

On Friday August 5th, I phoned the following ELCA's churches:Hope Commuinty Church, Rockford, MI., St. Stephens, Rockford, Peace Lutheran Sparta MI., and Mamrelund Lutheran Kent City, MI.

No one asnwered so I left the following message:

"HI" my name is Patricia, my telephone number. It has come to my attention that your Synod will be voting on two proposals at a gathering in Florida this coming week. These two ungodly issues(ordination of homosexuals and marrying them) should never have gotten this far. If you vote these proposals into you church systems, the world will have another MAN-Made tradition in place.

"Please vote "NO", and Stand Up for Jesus!

Snow

[Smalcald]

Snow,

I think that is good.

But this is probably going to happen, and only Lutherans who belong to the ELCA can change it, not those who are outside that denomination. In fact when those outside of the ECLA try to interject, it probably hardens them even more, but it is worth a try.

The ELCA was usurped at the national level in the 60's both at their top-level organization and in their seminaries, by theologians who do not accept the bible as the Word of God and as being inerrant and infallible. Once that happens, you generally see this trend, they began ordaining women long ago, they also support abortion rights, and it was only a matter of time before this issue overtook them.

There are many good Christians within the ELCA at the congregation level, but at some point they are going to have to look elsewhere, and many are.

There are other large Lutheran Synods which do hold to the Lutheran traditions and the bible, mainly the Missouri Synod Lutherans or LCMS.

Certainly gay sexual sin is no better or nor worse than any other sexual sin, but certainly you do not condone that behavior through the sanctity of the bonds of marriage, Jesus was very specific about what marriage is. Even worse a Christian organization cannot ordain practicing gays, anymore than they should ordain people who are involved in other areas of open sexual sin, such as adultery or porn. But I think there is also a difference between these issues and the issue of individual salvation for Christains who have gay sexual urges and who have even fallen in thier struggle fighting those urges. I think those people biblically can certainly be saved through Christ as all other sinners can.