THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

[missmuffet]

2 hours ago, douge said:

Please tell me exactly how I have caused someone to fall.

False teaching.

[Frits]

On 12/11/2020 at 10:27 PM, David1701 said:

The KJV says the same thing, only in antiquated English.

Hi @David1701

(WEB) “Come here. I will show you the wife, the Lamb’s bride.”

(ASV) "Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the wife of the Lamb."

(KJV) "Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife."

 

You see David, your modern WEB translation arbitrarily gives in Rev.21:9c a very different explanation to the bride. According to the original ASV and KJV, she is the Lamb's wife.

God bless.

[douge]

19 hours ago, missmuffet said:

False teaching.

Please give one example of the false teaching you claim.

[Diaste]

On 12/10/2020 at 8:02 AM, douge said:

Not just like a bride, but the bride:

Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

The bride is "that great city, the holy Jerusalem".

Sure looks that way.

[Diaste]

On 12/9/2020 at 12:28 PM, David1701 said:

This is complete nonsense!  Of COURSE the Church is the bride of Christ.

The New Jerusalem is prepared LIKE a bride (this is simile, which, by definition, means that the thing compared (the New Jerusalem) is not that with which it is compared (a bride) but has some similarities).

Except for in the verse in question it's the adornment as the object of the simile, not relationship status. 

I'm not saying your incorrect, it's just not proven here.

[David1701]

7 hours ago, Frits said:

Hi @David1701

(WEB) “Come here. I will show you the wife, the Lamb’s bride.”

(ASV) "Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the wife of the Lamb."

(KJV) "Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife."

 

You see David, your modern WEB translation arbitrarily gives in Rev.21:9c a very different explanation to the bride. According to the original ASV and KJV, she is the Lamb's wife.

God bless.

Perhaps you don't realise that wife and bride refer to the same condition of being married to a husband.

The three translations you have quoted mean the same thing.  There is slight difference here, in the underlying Greek, which accounts for the slightly different wording.  The Majority Text upon which the WEB is based, varies very slightly at this point, but it does not change the meaning.

[David1701]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Except for in the verse in question it's the adornment as the object of the simile, not relationship status. 

I'm not saying your incorrect, it's just not proven here.

I agree.  I was only correcting an assumption, on the part of the other poster, about that verse.

[Frits]

1 hour ago, David1701 said:

Perhaps you don't realise that wife and bride refer to the same condition of being married to a husband.

Hi @David1701

I think we are now going to get to the gist of Rev 21: 9c.  What you say "wife and bride refer to the same condition" is a 'contradictio in terminis'.  In other words, bride and wife are mutually exclusive concepts!
The "Bride" in Rev. 21 represents the believers of all ages, who trusted in the Lord God but never received the Holy Spirit.  For example, simply because Pentecost had not yet taken place in their time.  Or because good people who believe in Jesus Christ in the New Testament, did not know about the baptism with the Holy Spirit.  (read Acts 19: 2) Those believers in the New Testament who consciously prayed to the Lord Jesus and have received the Holy Spirit on their faith, together form his wife: by the Holy Spirit they have communion with God.

"But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit." (1Cor.6: 17)

You will understand that by saying you belong to the "bride" of the Lord Jesus, at the same time you deny the baptism in the Holy Spirit.  The baptism with the Holy Spirit of God through which I have fellowship with him is precisely I do not want
to deny.

God bless.

[Bro.Tan]

 

 Matthew 9:15   And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.

Isaiah 62:5   For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

 Jeremiah 16:9   For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will cause to cease out of this place in your eyes, and in your days, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride.

Let's take a look in the future in Isaiah 2:1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Bro.Tan
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[suzan344]

On 12/9/2020 at 7:50 AM, douge said:

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Paul here is not saying the church, the body of Christ, is the bride of Christ. Paul is using espousal to illustrate the faithfulness and purity of the church unto Christ Jesus.

The relationship the church has with Christ is expressed by marriage. Christ is the head of the church just as the husband is head of the wife (Ephesians 5:23).

Paul is admonishing the church for following other apostles and another gospel (2 Corinthians 11:4).

The bride of Christ is a city as seen by Revelation 21:9-10.

I feel that Rev. 21 is speaking of a mature structure that will be developed first here on earth as what we call the 3rd temple of God that will eventually be moved to New earth, wholesale.  Only that structure will exist on new earth. 

Hard to imagine, but if you think in terms of what is Heaven really like and what is God really made of and what exactly will we become once we die here and get our souls moved there, it makes a tiny bit more sense, to me at least, what Rev. 21 is referencing by bride and wife language.

It is easy to get mixed up what is being referenced here because God wanted this information to remain a mystery, in my book.