How to Authentically Speak in Tongues

[Your closest friendnt]

8 hours ago, George said:

2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV)
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

It probably should be translated ... man of God may be COMPLETE ...

And that seems to be the consensus in other translations ...

https://biblehub.com/2_timothy/3-17.htm

2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV)
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures,

*Paul is referring to scriptures that Timothy had known from a child...

Timothy grew up with the scriptures of the old Testament...taught in the Synagogue and that it would include the prophets as when Jesus was in one Synagogue and he read from the Esaias.

And when Herod asked the Priest where the Messiah would be born the Priest answered to him from the Prophetic "in the town of Bethleem".

Specifically that were the scriptures Paul was telling Timothy not to ignored..

He did not tell him to follow them, definitely not...Paul he would not tell Timothy to follow and teach the yearly sacrifices and the Priesthood and the practising of the Jewish culture...the redemption of the first born. 

Paul gives the reason to encourage the study of the old scriptures that included the narrative of Abraham when he said: it is good for doctrine for reproof for correction for instruction in righteousness...and he includes the good works ...

The goal was and is about the man of God to grow into righteousness and in all good works..in verse 17...

Paul is telling Timothy to lead the people he had given the responsibility to pastor towards those goals...and the first part is about personal development and then Paul is saying it is not only about our personal growth towards righteousness but to be thoroughly furnished unto good works..

At that time Paul recommended what he had knowledge about...we cannot say that he had knowledge of other books like the New Testament...or the Gospels or the other epistles or the book of Revelation books he never read...or the epistles of all the other disciples...in general whether they are included or not in the New Testament..

As to endorse them in some way or another...or to reprove them in some way...and what he have to say..about the specific part..that it is for correction towards to what or that is part is good for correcting this error...pointing out the error. 

Paul himself was corrected and Peter and I could say anyone else of the disciples because the revelation of the Gospel came gradually to both Peter and Paul and they had to teach the others and they followed in their own time and not right away...opposing at the beginning...

Everyone was corrected...the correction continued beyond the corrections in the book of Revelation...

Like when people at that time were talking about the Messiah that he will forgive their sins...those in the Law who study the scriptures but they did not say that the Messiah would have to die..

For that to happen...they did not see the Messiah as the slain Lamb of God to shed the blood for the forgiveness of their sins...

the Lamb God had promised to Abraham to provide...the Lamb to be Slain....as at that time it was about to be slain by Abraham the Leader...so the Lamb of God would be slain by the Leaders who had authority over the "Lamb of God " ...Jesus.  As Abraham had authority and exercise it over Issac .

which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

It probably should be translated ... man of God may be COMPLETE ...

Edited May 5, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Starise]

7 minutes ago, ChristB4us said:

Well I am fine with that when used in the correct way biblically, but if any one was using tongues or claiming tongues for private use, then maybe you should discern the tongues in the assembly too.

Joyce Meyers had testified that she interprets tongues in this way, by getting the gist or feel of what is being said.

A church believed they had the real God's gifts of tongues with interpretation and hired a linguist to know how many different languages was being manifested there as this linguist recorded it all.

As it turned out, it was all gibberish nonsense.  So was the interpreters faking it?  God only knows but one has to give the benefit of the doubt if they believed Joyce Meyes in how to interpret tongues in that way.

Not sure if that church also used tongues for private use but if they did, is reason why they and all churches should exercise that gift of discerning the spirits as any tongue spoken will be a foreign language for God to speak for unto the people and never gibberish nonsense.

Thank you for sharing.

 

I'm sorry I would tend to believe the cookie monster before I would believe anything JM says. 

[LiveWire]

16 hours ago, George said:

I believe a huge misunderstanding for many is knowing what "perfect" means in the passage.

1Co 13:8  Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 

1Co 13:9  For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 

1Co 13:10  but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 

Some would say this "perfect" is the Bible in its entirety.  However, is that what Paul is talking about?

This is every time it's used in the New Testament ...

https://worthy.bible/online-bible-study/strongs/g5046

I suggest that the "PERFECT" is NOT the Word of God coming in the Cannon, which was comprised 300 years after 1 Corinthians is penned ... and for those advocating for the KJV on other threads ... the original KJV had the Apocrypha within it, and was a crime to remove it in the early KJV versions!  For a history of the English Bible ... 

The perfect is our redemption ... when we see HIM FACE to FACE ... is my personal understanding of that passage.  I like to think of it this way ... we are all babies in our eternal existence, and even now, we are simply taking life step by step, learning to live it out!

1Co 13:11  When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 

1Co 13:12  For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. 

Even Paul, when he pens this, recognizes that he once spoke as a child. As he matured in the faith, he gave up the childish issues ... and even in his maturity, he states, I'm looking at my reflection not perfectly but dimly ... however, his partial knowledge and understanding will be complete when he fully understands and knows.  When does that happen?   He's not talking about the Bible at all and the cannon ... he's speaking of his eternal existence when he graduates to glory and sees the Lord face to face in his perfection, and when that happens, He will UNDERSTAND fully all those things that he only partially understood now in this present world!

Honestly, re-read the passage ... it's all how you interpret the word "PERFECT" ...

Amen!

 

[Daniel Marsh]

On 5/13/2021 at 11:19 PM, Paul James said:

I think your comment about priming the pump is sort of directed at me, because I was the one who used the expression.

I want to make it quite clear that Jesus is the baptizer with the Holy Spirit and the giver of tongues.  No one can speak or pray in tongues unless they are filled with the Spirit and have been endowed with the ability by the Holy Spirit.  No one can "teach" a person to speak in tongues.

But there is nothing wrong with taking a person through the steps of faith in order to allow the Spirit to flow out of them:

1.  They must be absolutely certain it is God's will for them.  If they are unsure, then they will not receive the gift, because it is received according to their faith, and if they are unsure or as James says, double-minded, they will not receive anything from the Lord.  Therefore, getting a candidate and surrounding him and trying the push tongues into him by laying hands on him will not achieve the result.   This is Scriptural and is in line with the Scripture: "Be not unwise, but understanding what the will of God is."

2.  He needs to ask God for the gift.  The Scripture says that if we ask for anything according to the will of God, we will receive it.  The key is knowing the will of God.  This links with point 1.

3.  Asking is one thing, and receiving it by faith is another.  If we know God's will, and we ask according to His will, then we know that God hands the gift out to us and al we have to do is take it from Him.  It involves the simple prayer of: "I receive your gift right now."

If I am assisting someone to receive the gift of tongues, I tell them that they are now baptised with the Spirit and has the ability to speak in tongues.  All they need to do is to activate their faith and start speaking in a language they have never learned.  Many people that I have assisted have launched out and spoken a clear, articulate language.  None of this "ba ba sha ba ra ma" type babbling.

But I have encountered some who have had a mental block and have needed a further encouragement to use their faith.  This is where I have "primed the pump".  I have got them to copy my tongues language.   I have been very careful to tell them they they are not speaking in their own tongue but are copying mine.  This is just to give them the idea of what speaking in tongues is like.  Once they get used to speaking a few words in my language, I tell them to launch out in faith starting with my words, but not to stop speaking.  What has happened is that they have started to speak in a totally different language than mind as they Holy Spirit expression has flowed out of them as their faith has strengthened.

I had one event with a guy where this did not work and no matter how hard I tried, he couldn't get the flow going.  In the end I said to the Lord, "You are the baptizer with the Holy Spirit and so I give him up to You."  Immediately he said, "Oh!" and then launched right out in a beautiful language that had no relation to mine.  The Lord showed me that it wasn't the method that achieved the results, it was the Holy Spirit honouring the person's faith.

So this is not "teaching" a person to speak in tongues, but increasing the person's faith to release the flow of the Holy Spirit through them.

Of course the Holy Spirit can give someone the gift of tongues without anyone assisting them, just the same as He can save a sinner without the involvement of anyone else to show him the way.  But it is an added blessing for someone leading a sinner to the Lord and seeing him get saved.  It is no different to leading someone to develop the faith to be baptized with the Spirit and receive a spiritual gift.

I know that there are those who try and get people to speak in tongues by copying some words, but in my opinion, it won't work unless the first three steps of faith that I have outlined are made first;  and it is best done is a cool, calm environment, away from the hype of a rowdy meeting where the person can think clearly without being forced or hyped up by the emotional atmosphere of people yelling at them like Commanche Indians, half of them yelling, "Hold on", and the other half yelling, "Let go!"

Matthew 6:6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Matt 26:36 
Then Jesus came with them to a garden called Gethsemane, and he said to his disciples: "Sit down here while I go and pray yonder."

Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/search?q=pray+garden&translation=all

Praying like in Pentecostal / Charismatic Churches violates the teaching of Jesus above. 

[LiveWire]

1 hour ago, Daniel Marsh said:

Matthew 6:6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Matt 26:36 
Then Jesus came with them to a garden called Gethsemane, and he said to his disciples: "Sit down here while I go and pray yonder."

Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/search?q=pray+garden&translation=all

Praying like in Pentecostal / Charismatic Churches violates the teaching of Jesus above. 

Unless, it is someone coming to God being Saved while others around are Worshiping God for what He's doing.

 

Jesus, never dealt with a situation like Peter did when 3,000 were saved and it appeared like a drunken barrage gone horrifically wrong.   Pentecostal's would be more like Peter's style in the Book of Acts 

[Ani Tefillah]

On 5/5/2023 at 7:59 AM, George said:

I believe a huge misunderstanding for many is knowing what "perfect" means in the passage.

1Co 13:8  Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 

1Co 13:9  For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 

1Co 13:10  but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 

Some would say this "perfect" is the Bible in its entirety.  However, is that what Paul is talking about?

This is every time it's used in the New Testament ...

https://worthy.bible/online-bible-study/strongs/g5046

I suggest that the "PERFECT" is NOT the Word of God coming in the Cannon, which was comprised 300 years after 1 Corinthians is penned ... and for those advocating for the KJV on other threads ... the original KJV had the Apocrypha within it, and was a crime to remove it in the early KJV versions!  For a history of the English Bible ... 

The perfect is our redemption ... when we see HIM FACE to FACE ... is my personal understanding of that passage.  I like to think of it this way ... we are all babies in our eternal existence, and even now, we are simply taking life step by step, learning to live it out!

1Co 13:11  When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 

1Co 13:12  For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. 

Even Paul, when he pens this, recognizes that he once spoke as a child. As he matured in the faith, he gave up the childish issues ... and even in his maturity, he states, I'm looking at my reflection not perfectly but dimly ... however, his partial knowledge and understanding will be complete when he fully understands and knows.  When does that happen?   He's not talking about the Bible at all and the cannon ... he's speaking of his eternal existence when he graduates to glory and sees the Lord face to face in his perfection, and when that happens, He will UNDERSTAND fully all those things that he only partially understood now in this present world!

Honestly, re-read the passage ... it's all how you interpret the word "PERFECT" ...

Very well said! And thank you for sharing the part about the Apocrypha too! 😊 

[ChristB4us]

On 5/5/2023 at 1:59 AM, George said:

I suggest that the "PERFECT" is NOT the Word of God coming in the Cannon, which was comprised 300 years after 1 Corinthians is penned ... and for those advocating for the KJV on other threads ... the original KJV had the Apocrypha within it, and was a crime to remove it in the early KJV versions!  For a history of the English Bible ... 

@PrayerWife

Regardless of  the Apocrypha being in the KJV, it was never considered scripture.

Why did the KJV originally include the Apocrypha?   <--- Link

"The reasons why the Apocrypha was included in the original KJV while not being included as actual scripture are not stated by the KJV translators. However there really are only a few options as to why they would be included. For instance they simply followed the example set before them. The Coverdale Bible of 1535 had set the precedence of including the Apocrypha not integrated within the books of the Bible but in between the Old and the New covenants, just as the KJV had done.

Coverdale himself wrote

“The books and treatise, which among the father’s of old are not reckoned to be of like authority with the other books of the Bible, neither are they found in the Canon of the Hebrews (Coverdale Bible, page 375).” 

The Matthews Bible 1537, the Geneva Bible 1560 and  Bishops Bible 1568 all followed the example of Coverdale. The KJV then did nothing unusual by including the Apocrypha between the testaments while also noting their unauthoritative status.

Furthermore Bishop Bancrof had issued 15 rules to the translators before the translation process. One of these rules stated. 

“The ordinary Bible read in the Church, commonly called the Bishop’s Bible, to be followed, and as little altered as the Truth of the original will permit.”

As the Bishops Bible included the Apocrypha between the 2 Testaments it stands to reason that the KJV would do likewise. " ~~~~end of quote

More at the link above the quote if interested in further information.

So this cannot be used for advocating against the KJV.

The preface of the KJV from the KJV translators should shame KJVers for claiming it is a perfect Bible, but it does not stop anti-KJVers for continuing to knock it down for other faulty reasonings like King James was gay and had the Bible changed even though the scriptures speaking against the KJV are still in it and are not any different nor missing from the modern Bibles on speaking against homosexuality.

The link to that preface in the KJV ---> King James Version Original Preface [1611]

I never said it was a perfect Bible either, but that it holds the meat of His words to reprove false teachings whereas the other modern bibles do not and thus sows doubts in God's words.  Even though there are scripture that could reprove that false teaching in that same modern bible, but because of that changed message in key verses which are usually taken out of context to support false teaching, it is hard to reprove it having succeeded in sowing doubt to the mat of His words.

Only Jesus Christ can confirm His words to believers desiring the truth in His words as kept in the KJV and not show any partiality to modern Bibles for not loving Him enough to keep His words nor the words of His disciples. 

[NConly]

On 1/5/2021 at 10:46 PM, Riverwalker said:

I would say by letting the Holy Spirit drive the prayer

 

Acts 2:1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all [a]with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Pray as he gives you utterance

The tongues they spoke were just other languages from other countries is what I read.

[Your closest friendnt]

53 minutes ago, NConly said:

The tongues they spoke were just other languages from other countries is what I read.

That's what the Holy Spirit did...they were on fire the Holy took them over...the cup was running over...full of the Holy Spirit..

This is what Jesus said, the Holy Spirit will take over and put the words into your mouth and those are the words you going to speak...

Like Paul...suddenly he said it is about the resurrection and they were divided...the group of the Pharisees and the group of the Seduces..and Paul was spare...

[NConly]

2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

That's what the Holy Spirit did...they were on fire the Holy took them over...the cup was running over...full of the Holy Spirit..

This is what Jesus said, the Holy Spirit will take over and put the words into your mouth and those are the words you going to speak...

Like Paul...suddenly he said it is about the resurrection and they were divided...the group of the Pharisees and the group of the Seduces..and Paul was spare...

yes but now days people are not speaking other languages that can be interpreted as also spoken of. What I have heard of by people speaking tongues can not be interpreted. To me that isn't tongues.