Pretrib began with Darby?

[Diaste]

16 hours ago, kingdombrat said:

his is why I acknowledge the first few Verses of Matthew 24 are 70 A.D.   Christ saw what the result of that was leading to.

 

But from then on, the rest of Matthew matches Daniel/Revelation/{special mention to Enoch Chapter One} concerning things that would happen at the end of God's timing for when Tribulation takes place.

I think it's the only view that makes sense.

[Alive]

15 hours ago, David1701 said:

It might be worth trying; but what about PPF?  The same explanation is required; but it's much more concise.

Although I appreciate the desire for Scottish brevity, it seems that the & is needed for uncertainty reduction.

[Revelation Man]

22 hours ago, Diaste said:

As far back as the 4th century, and maybe the 2nd century, there are reports of historians and 'church fathers' alluding to a pretrib rapture.

Paul was opposing some false teaching about the Day of the Lord and the gathering of us to Jesus in writing 2 Thess 2.

Was pretrib taught in Paul's day and what was Paul opposing?

Did the followers of the Way teach a pretrib rapture?

Is the doctrine wrong if begun by Darby?

Is it correct if mentioned by Irenaeus, Polycarp, etc?

You and Darby will be flying through the air as Spirit men at the same time, and Darby will be like, "I got that from Paul by the way, its called the Harpazo, and in the Latin Vulgate the Rapio, and finally in the English, its called the Catching away. So, I can't take credit for Paul's work"

[Alive]

2 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

You and Darby will be flying through the air as Spirit men at the same time, and Darby will be like, "I got that from Paul by the way, its called the Harpazo, and in the Latin Vulgate the Rapio, and finally in the English, its called the Catching away. So, I can't take credit for Paul's work"

The question is 'when'.

:-)

[Guest kingdombrat]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

I think it's the only view that makes sense.

Agreed!

Mostly based on the fact the Gospel is designed to be spread all over the known world.   What better event than the Destruction of both Jerusalem and the Temple to get people scattered.   As result, God's WORD is scattered to every part.   That makes the 70 A.D. event spiritually biased towards spreading the Gospel of Christ only, not the fulfillment of prophecy covering [like in the days of Noah] where it's a global event.

[Alive]

3 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

Agreed!

Mostly based on the fact the Gospel is designed to be spread all over the known world.   What better event than the Destruction of both Jerusalem and the Temple to get people scattered.   As result, God's WORD is scattered to every part.   That makes the 70 A.D. event spiritually biased towards spreading the Gospel of Christ only, not the fulfillment of prophecy covering [like in the days of Noah] where it's a global event.

THere is no question that this is what actually happened.

Gal. 4:4 (ESVS) But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,

In my view, Christ came when He did for several reasons on a practical level. The known world (most) has been hellenized with a common language and then subsequently, the Romans and the road system made travel both safe and reasonably easy. The Gospel saturated the empire and spread organically further north west and east as a result.

Jesus said that generation was the most wicked and it was time for Judgement. God used Rome to swing that hammer. Not a stone was left on another.

The fullness of time...I'm sure the above explanation isn't complete, but it makes sense to me.

[David1701]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

Although I appreciate the desire for Scottish brevity, it seems that the & is needed for uncertainty reduction.

Alright, we'll see how it goes.

[Alive]

5 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Alright, we'll see how it goes.

Its settled then...a hardy shake and both men nod knowingly.

[David1701]

Just now, Alive said:

Its settled then...a hardy shake and both men nod knowingly.

Indeed, Dr. Watson, the game is afoot!

[Guest kingdombrat]

11 minutes ago, Alive said:

THere is no question that this is what actually happened.

Gal. 4:4 (ESVS) But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,

In my view, Christ came when He did for several reasons on a practical level. The known world (most) has been hellenized with a common language and then subsequently, the Romans and the road system made travel both safe and reasonably easy. The Gospel saturated the empire and spread organically further north west and east as a result.

Jesus said that generation was the most wicked and it was time for Judgement. God used Rome to swing that hammer. Not a stone was left on another.

The fullness of time...I'm sure the above explanation isn't complete, but it makes sense to me.

We see the results of this Destruction and then have to imagine what took place.

My guess is...

Knowing how the religious sects were able to buy off favors, like getting Christ to Pilot to be judged before the Crucifixion.  I believe we can also see the same pattern towards the Apostles when the Gospel began exploding in the days of [Acts].   The Gospel being preached by others, the miracles taking place everywhere, the boldness of Peter and the others, Jews converting from the Law to Christ, and this is {after} their attempts and success of killing Yeshua, burying Him, being done away with His teachings/miracles/thinking.

 

I would imagine for the Romans, overlooking a very divided Jerusalem, (and what Christ had accomplished was now happening 12 fold with Paul involved + converts), no doubt the Pharisees and company were complaining to the Governor like they did about Christ, it was the easiest fix by going into the heart of the matter, diffusing the war between Jews, destroying the Temple [misunderstanding Christ was no part of this Temple] thinking they would solve the Yiddish Religion Problem.   

 

As a result of that tragic event, the Gospel today has reached basically every known soul with few exceptions here and there.

 

The Brilliancy of God and Him allowing His People to take such a fall in order to "spread" the [Gospel].   I would say Judgement is nasty when you're not just defeated, but become the {Spark} that set off what you spent your last days trying to keep hidden in secret.