I dont understand the trinity

[popsthebuilder]

20 minutes ago, Daily Bread said:

God is still the Almighty and will have His kingdom handed over to Him by Christ at the end of Christ's thousand year reign.

And again; thank you for your patience and clarification to this laymen.

peace

[JohnD]

3 hours ago, Tristen said:

Hey John,

I have also used examples like families and teams (or one man being at-once a father, brother and son). But I think such examples only serve to demonstrate that trinities exist in logic. If we press these analogies much deeper, we end up with incorrect conceptions of God. For example, Jesus is not part of God in the same sense that a family member is part of a family (i.e. God is not like a pie that can be divided up into parts). Jesus is fully God. Likewise, a single dimension vector is not a full coordinate (nor is it all coordinates – a.k.a. “everywhere”).

 

Correct.

I never over emphasize the analogies.

I only use them to express examples of a unity of plurality.

I think the one about the spatial dimensions is the best:

• three coexisting omnipresent elements
• invisible to the human eye
• yet everything depends on all three to exist

 

[Buddy D. Mouse]

Look!

 

 

[JohnD]

7 hours ago, JohnD said:

  11 hours ago, Tristen said:

Hey John,

I have also used examples like families and teams (or one man being at-once a father, brother and son). But I think such examples only serve to demonstrate that trinities exist in logic. If we press these analogies much deeper, we end up with incorrect conceptions of God. For example, Jesus is not part of God in the same sense that a family member is part of a family (i.e. God is not like a pie that can be divided up into parts). Jesus is fully God. Likewise, a single dimension vector is not a full coordinate (nor is it all coordinates – a.k.a. “everywhere”).

Another quick point...

People tend to get tangled up in the biblical terms "father / son" and see God as an actual family. Like the Holy Spirit is a mother.

Or they think uses of a human family as an example of a compound oneness is saying God is a family...

"Father" with regard God in scripture means "Creator of." In this regard, each individual of the Godhead is the Creator (Father) of

something. The Holy Spirit is the Father of scripture (2 Peter 1:21). The one we call the Heavenly Father is the Father of Jesus (John 1:14)

and Jesus is the Father of creation (John 1:3 / Colossians 1:16 / Isaiah 44:24).

This does not make all one and the same individual (as the modalists / Sabellianists try to say).

The Godhead is made up of three distinct individuals whop are he one God.  Each have unique roles. And the scriptures emphasizes their plurality as well as their oneness (i.e. the compound oneness / unity of plurality).

But even as far as the Father / Son terminology of the first and second persons of the Trinity... even that has a temporal beginning (Hebrews 1:5 says he [shall be] a Son to me and I [will be] a Father to him... indicating there was a time when neither were true (before the incarnation when the first person of the Trinity prepared a body for the second person of the Trinity to become (Hebrews 10:5 / John 1:14) ← which Philippians 2:6 states (in Greek) that Jesus became without ceasing to be God morphe theos huparchon... 

I did a study once on the Trinity going all the way back to the clinical descriptions of all three who are the one God to get beyond the terms that can trip people up / hinder their understanding.

1 GOD:

God individual A

God individual B

God individual C

Then I list descriptions of each under their individual titles, I even considered a project color coding each throughout the Bible. I daunting task I am incapable of. But when complete most will be shocked to discover most of the Bible is about God individual B, and how little is revealed about God individual A. God individual C takes almost complete humble anonymity in writing (inspiring the writing prophets to write) the Bible ← considering he is just as much God as the other two individuals are...

God is amazing ! ! !

[Billiards Ball]

On 1/9/2021 at 12:34 PM, F_Ivan said:

i recently heard that the trinity is three separate persons but with the same divinity/attributes as God? Isn't that basically the same as three equally powerful creator gods? Or isn't that basically reducing God to just being a joint force of son father and spirit but not actually one God? How I understand God is that there is one personal god (not just one "divinity" in the abstract sense) and that Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit are 100% God, Jesus is the same God who made Adam, and so is God the father and the holy spirit.  My understanding of the relationship between father son and spirit is basically the same as the concept of omnipresence, God can be both in New York and Los Angeles at the same time and yet only be one God and not two gods. In the same way Jesus on earth prayed to the father while both being 100% God and there only being one personal living God. I believe that some would call this a form of modalism?

Why can't we say "three powerful Gods who are One in the most intimate possible way"? For example, a picture God uses for this unity is marital relations where two people uniquely join to become one yet with two different personalities.

[JohnD]

20 hours ago, Billiards Ball said:

Why can't we say "three powerful Gods who are One in the most intimate possible way"? For example, a picture God uses for this unity is marital relations where two people uniquely join to become one yet with two different personalities.

Somethings we pick apart to death with our suppose(s) and what if(s)...

What if you realized how far apart atoms actually are? And the things that you perceive of as solid actually are not...

only the negative charges (or repulse factor) gives u the illusion of solid surfaces... the floor... the ground... the cloths we wear...

Do we go around testing everything like some maniac? Or do we just accept things as they are?

Hard to go about the business of living without this.

God is one. The three individuals are the one God.

Could God exist without all three?

How tall is God?

How thick is God?

How heavy is God?

What color is God?

Would God be good at sports?

All we can go on is what the word of this God has revealed.

There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4).

Three individuals are the one God who coexist WITH each other:

John 1:1-2 (Jesus the Word)

1 John 1:1-2 (the Father)

Genesis 1:1-2  (the Spirit of God)

And btw, only Jesus (preincarnate) created all things in the beginning

Isaiah 44:24 / John 1:3 / Colossians 1:16 / Hebrews 1:2

He was in the presence of the Father and the Spirit in the beginning

but he acted alone / by himself.

This is no doubt why he was the one in the Godhead to become a man and

pay for the sins of humanity.

[francesco]

Dear F-Ivan,

Your question regarding the trinity actually supplies most of the formal answers within its own text.  You are right.  The holy trinity is composed of three persons in one God.  This is clearly not a concept that we mere humans can wrap our heads around in any sense of completeness.  We live in a world essentially described by the data supplied by our physical senses.  The concepts of omnipresence, temporal relativism, etc. can be comprehended intellectually, but cannot be known in their fuller reality by direct observational means.  For that we'll have to rely upon faith which leads to knowledge.  I actually find it exciting to imagine that someday after I leave this present corporeality, I may just get to find out.  Trust in God-He will provide all that we need.    

[JohnD]

5 hours ago, francesco said:

Dear F-Ivan,

Your question regarding the trinity actually supplies most of the formal answers within its own text.  You are right.  The holy trinity is composed of three persons in one God.  This is clearly not a concept that we mere humans can wrap our heads around in any sense of completeness. 

I get where you are coming from in that God  is farther above humanity than humanity is above the ameba.

But the concept of the Trinity is not as difficult to grasp when

the confusing scriptures are properly translated by the Holy Spirit and not the traditions of man.

For example, the so-called Apostle's Creed credits the Father with creation. {Game Show Wrong Answer Buzzer}

John 1:3 / Colossians 1:16 / Hebrews 1:2 all claim Jesus (preincarnate) created all things in the beginning.

And Isaiah 44:24 says he did it alone / by himself.

It was in the presence of the Father (1 John 1:1-2) and the Spirit (Genesis 1:1-2)

but God the Word (Jesus see John 1:14) was WITH the Father and Spirit (John 1:1-3)

and he acted alone / by himself in creating all things in the beginning.

This removes the question how can Jesus be the ONLY Son of the Father?

John 1:14 indicates Jesus is the ONLY begotten / only CREATION of the Father (Hebrews 10:5 / Hebrews 1:5).

And Luke 3:38 that states Adam the son of God... with the fuller revelation is understood

Adam the son of God the Word.

In the beginning God the Word created the heavens and the earth.

And it makes sense that he would be the one in the Godhead to take on the form of humanity

and to lay that life down to pay for human sin.

Know this first... the Holy Spirit who wrote the Bible interprets the Bible. Not by the will of man. 

2 Peter 1:20-21.

The traditions of man NULLIFY the Word of God. Mark 7:13.

Those who buy into the doctrines and traditions of man worship Christ IN VAIN. Mark 7:7.

No wonder the Trinity is so confusing to so many. They buy into the teachings and traditions of man.

[Buddy D. Mouse]

Isa 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,

 

The mighty God,

 

The everlasting Father,

 

The Prince of Peace.

 

 

Maybe this gets The Apostles Creed off the hook  - Jesus is called the everlasting Father - and Apostles Creed goes back to Old Roman Symbol about 100 AD.

Also, Trinitarian symbols have been found in the CATACOMBS way before Nicene Creed.

 

[Buddy D. Mouse]

https://christianclipartreview.blogspot.com/2017/06/trinity-ring-symbols-from-catacombs.html