Genesis 4:7

[Frits]

16 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Yes, we are born into sinful surroundings and we will eventually sin.

Hi Justin,

Nice you participate in the conversation.

Hence, therefore, that sin is at the door?
He (sin) must tempt each person individually and make them a sinner?
So we humans are not born in a sinful state?

 

God bless bro.

[Justin Adams]

7 minutes ago, Frits said:

Hi Justin,

Nice you participate in the conversation.

Hence, therefore, that sin is at the door?
He (sin) must tempt each person individually and make them a sinner?
So we humans are not born in a sinful state?

 

God bless bro.

We are born with a propensity to make wrong choices and the deck is stacked against us. But remember Nineveh and Jonas. God said there are many that do not know their right hand from their left. And funny to say, Jonas was upset when they repented.

This is a sad state to be in, when we wish condemnation upon our kids. Yeshua made sure to tell us that when we accept the Gospel of His Saving Grace, "there is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ".

The world and its many judges wants to condemn us, but we have a Great High Priest that forever is at the Throne of Grace making intercessions for us. Yeshua is ruling and reigning, even as we speak. He is on throne with The Ancient of Days. (see Daniel's Divine Council vision).

Just a little while longer and what is now, will be totally finished. And we will reign with Him as our Brother and Lord.

[Frits]

51 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

We are born with a propensity to make wrong choices and the deck is stacked against us. But remember Nineveh and Jonas. God said there are many that do not know their right hand from their left. And funny to say, Jonas was upset when they repented.

This is a sad state to be in, when we wish condemnation upon our kids. Yeshua made sure to tell us that when we accept the Gospel of His Saving Grace, "there is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ".

The world and its many judges wants to condemn us, but we have a Great High Priest that forever is at the Throne of Grace making intercessions for us. Yeshua is ruling and reigning, even as we speak. He is on throne with The Ancient of Days. (see Daniel's Divine Council vision).

Just a little while longer and what is now, will be totally finished. And we will reign with Him as our Brother and Lord.

As you can see in my rating, I totally agree with you.
But can I ask something about the first sentence?
"We are born with a propensity to make wrong choices". Does that mean that we are not born with the same inclination to make good choices?  Or are both tendencies equally present with us at birth?
Or is it de facto that man is daily surrounded by sin, and thus persistently tempted?

And so only those people, who through new birth and baptism with the Holy Spirit, by grace have received the Power of God to rule over sin?

God bless.

[Justin Adams]

58 minutes ago, Frits said:

As you can see in my rating, I totally agree with you.
But can I ask something about the first sentence?
"We are born with a propensity to make wrong choices". Does that mean that we are not born with the same inclination to make good choices?  Or are both tendencies equally present with us at birth?
Or is it de facto that man is daily surrounded by sin, and thus persistently tempted?

And so only those people, who through new birth and baptism with the Holy Spirit, by grace have received the Power of God to rule over sin?

God bless.

What the church has lost is the vision of spiritual discernment. The scriptures have been strip-mined of the major parts of reality. The unseen! We have this silly 'Paradise Lost' idea of Milton's and overlook deliberately what the early church viewed as most important. In second temple literature there are only about four passages about man's fall. All the rest focus completely on the Gen 6 events. This is where holy ones 'left their first estate' and came to earth on Mt Hermon and corrupted humanity. They taught all kinds of terrible things to mankind so they could pollute the line of Yeshua and hasten our destruction.

Then came Babel after the deluge and they continued the ungodly ideas of pre-flood times.

If we do not have a Deut 32 worldview and a Divine Council worldview, we will miss most of what the later NT writers were talking about. The Tanakh does not mention the fall as being the basis of accelerated evil in the world. Yet today that is all you hear about.

This shortsighted view has been passed down thru the ages so that today we are quite blind to the reality of spiritual wickedness.

But Yeshua put to rights all of this. a) the fall, b) the scattering at Babel and c) the angelic wickedness.

Thus the deck is stacked against us. If it were not for Yeshua and His Cross, we would be lost. The regathering of the nations began at Pentecost and continues today because the enemy has had his previous mandate rescinded by the Cross and his weapons are nullified.

The enemies have been disarmed as the apostle said. "Had they but known, they never would have killed the King of Glory". God outfoxes them at every turn and plays the long game. "We are more than conquerors".

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Heleadethme]

Thank you for that post.  The vast majority of believers are not walking in the victory and authority that Jesus has given to His body, we're still walking as though the "fall" is still in effect for us.  This is a matter of spiritual growth and faith, I believe.....we are still believing a lot of lies and it's a battle and good fight of faith to overcome them.

One thing that has kind of clicked with me lately in case it's helpful for others as well, is that we need to be willing to die to our carnal mind (lies) in order to have the mind of Christ, and see with His eyes of faith.  Well I guess we have all heard that the battle is in the mind, but somehow I hadn't really connected "dying to ourselves" as necessitating dying to our carnal mind.  However there are things in our hearts that need to be dealt with in order for us to become willing, so it's a heart issue as well.  But I believe the Lord will get us there as we keep taking up our cross and following Him, and that this is part of the bride preparing herself for His return.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Heleadethme

[enoob57]

3 hours ago, Frits said:

Hi Riverwalker,

Wow, you provide a lot of material to read. Thank you.
To begin with, I ask this question: You say, "the sin of Adam carried forward".

How am I supposed to imagine that? How did Adam pass on sin?

God bless.

Quote

You say, "the sin of Adam carried forward".

How am I supposed to imagine that?

To the reading of Scripture:
Gen 2:7

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
KJV
What we learn from this is God took from that which was created 'dust of the ground' and place that of Himself 'breath of life' and from that action man became a living soul; so taking that which began the body and that which is of The Eternal (mind, will , emotion) so the image of God... Thus we can deduce an outer of man flesh and the soul of man  and of God and man t/The s/Spirit:


 

Gen 2:16-17 
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
KJV
from this we know upon the very act of eating death would occur

Gen 3:6-8
 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. 8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
KJV
from this we know that some portion of them died by eating... yet their bodies still functioned and their minds and will and emotions were functioning so that leaves s/Spirit... they have both died spiritually and separated from The Breath of God 'Spirit'... the above chart.

In the beginning man could draw both from the creative aspect and from the s/Spiritual aspect of existence but now being progenies we are born with the same incompleteness of being... all that we can learn is through body or flesh with the five senses and that is enough to know there is a God but totally being incomplete to be in relationship with God... 

Rom 1:18-25
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
KJV
Hope this helps...

 

[Riverwalker]

5 hours ago, Frits said:

Hi Riverwalker,

Wow, you provide a lot of material to read. Thank you.
To begin with, I ask this question: You say, "the sin of Adam carried forward".

How am I supposed to imagine that? How did Adam pass on sin?

God bless.

Like produces like. Adam became corrupt when He sinned, so everyone who came from Adam (Which is everyone bu Jesus) was born with that same corrupt sin nature that eventually causes us all to sin

Going back to Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

[Frits]

3 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Thank you for that post.  The vast majority of believers are not walking in the victory and authority that Jesus has given to His body, we're still walking as though the "fall" is still in effect for us.  This is a matter of spiritual growth and faith, I believe.....we are still believing a lot of lies and it's a battle and good fight of faith to overcome them.

One thing that has kind of clicked with me lately in case it's helpful for others as well, is that we need to be willing to die to our carnal mind (lies) in order to have the mind of Christ, and see with His eyes of faith.  Well I guess we have all heard that the battle is in the mind, but somehow I hadn't really connected "dying to ourselves" as necessitating dying to our carnal mind.  However there are things in our hearts that need to be dealt with in order for us to become willing, so it's a heart issue as well.  But I believe the Lord will get us there as we keep taking up our cross and following Him, and that this is part of the bride preparing herself for His return.

Thank you sister for your good input in this reflection.
 A piece of what stands out for me is, 

"The vast majority of believers are not walking in the victory and authority that Jesus has given to His body, we're still walking as though the "fall" is still in effect for us.  This is a matter of spiritual growth and faith, I believe..."

Wow, thanks for that!

God bless

[Frits]

53 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

Adam became corrupt when He sinned, so everyone who came from Adam (Which is everyone bu Jesus) was born with that same corrupt sin nature that eventually causes us all to sin

If I understand correctly what you are trying to say:
By sinning Adam became depraved. Same depravenes like the devil?
And did Adam pass this depravenes on to Cain, and not to Abel?  And how? Is this said in Rm.5:12? 

What do you think of the following metaphor:

Imagine 100 healthy people living in a resort. Outside the resort, all people have covid!
Then, there is one person who opens the door of the resort, and lets all the covid carriers in!
So by one person covid came into the resort!  Not by birth, not by DNA, but simply because he opened the door of the resort.
And the devil is much more 'contagious' and more deadly to humans than covid!

What do you think?

In Lk.4:6 the devil said: "power is delivered unto me".

I think through Adam, what do you think?  I think Adam opened the door of the kingdom of "earth" and thus let in the devil and his henchman.

God bless you.

[Bro.Tan]

On 1/13/2021 at 1:06 PM, Frits said:

Gen 4:7 KJV

'If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.'

         * * * * * * *

Is there someone who can say something about:

a) How is it possible that "sin  lieth at the door"?

b) How is it possible that sin has "desire" unto us?

c) If we don't rule over him, will he rule over us?

God bless.
Frits

 

 

 

Cain refuse to follow instruction given by God. This example of Cain shows the spirit that one allows to overcome them when righteousness is show to them and they choose different. Let's look vesre 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. When a person refuse instructions, after a period of time the door for Satan or any other evil spirit can come in. Paul say in Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. When you are righteous by God, you get blessing from God, but Cain wouldn't do right. So what happen is, after a while Cain stubbornness gave over to Satan and he killed his brother. Let's go read something from  Jude 1:11  Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. So Cain is known all through the Bible as a wicked person.

 

Here's another situation how sin lieth at the door. A married couple together for a while, and one stop sleeping with the other. This goes on for a while. Let's take a look what Paul says about this in 1 Corinthians 7: 3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. 4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. 5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. So if these instruction are not followed, there's a chance sin can enter the marriage.