CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION IF YOU DON’T ‘Hold Firmly’?

[enoob57]

5 hours ago, Waggles said:

We are not living in the times of the NT

 

[steve morrow]

DOES  MANS  LOGICAL  AND  THEOLOGICAL  WAYS  REPLACE  GODS  TRUTH 

 

EPHSIANS 4:27  NEITHER  GIVE  PLACE  TO  THE devil

 

COLOSSIANS 1:21  AND  YOU  THAT  WERE  SOMETIME  ALIENATED  AND  ENEMIES  IN  YOUR  MIND  --BY  WICKED  WORKS--  YET  NOW  HATH  HE  RECONCILED  

--1:22-- IN  THE  BODY  OF  HIS  FLESH  THROUGH  DEATH  TO  PRESENT  YOU  HOLY  AND  UNBLAMEABLE  AND  UNREPROVEABLE  IN  HIS  SIGHT 

--1:23-- IF  YOU  CONTINUE --  IN  THE  FAITH  GROUNDED  AND  SETTLED  AND  BE  NOT  --MOVED  AWAY--  FROM  THE  HOPE  OF  THE  GOSPEL  WHICH  YOU  HEARD  AND  WHICH  WAS  PREACHED  TO  EVERY  CREATURE  WHICH  IS  UNDER  HEAVEN  WHEREOF  I  PAUL  AM  MADE  A  MINISTER 

 

ROMANS 13:11  AND  THAT  KNOWING  THE  TIME  THAT  NOW  IT  IS  HIGH  TIME  --TO  AWAKE-- OUT  OF  SLEEP  FOR  NOW  IS  OUR  --- SALVATION  NEARER ---  THAN  WHEN  WE  BELIEVED ---

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

[steve morrow]

UNDERSTANDING  FROM  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST  

 

HEBREWS 2:1  THEREFORE  WE  OUGHT  TO  TO  GIVE  THE  MORE  EARNEST  HEED  TO  THE  THINGS  WHICH  WE  HAVE  HEARD  ---LEST  AT  ANY  TIME  WE  LET  THEM  SLIP---

2 TIMOTHY 2:7  CONSIDER  WHAT  I  SAY  AND  THE  LORD  GIVE  THEE  UNDERSTANDING  IN  ALL  THINGS 

 

PROVERBS 21:16  THE  MAN   THAT  WANDERETH  OUT  OF  THE  WAY  OF  UNDERSTANDING  ---SHALL  REMAIN---  IN  THE  CONGREGATION  OF  THE  DEAD ---

 

HEBREWS 10:36  FOR  YOU  HAVE  NEED  OF  PATIENCE  THAT  AFTER  YOU  HAVE  DONE  THE  WILL  OF  GOD  YOU  MIGHT  RECEIVE  THE  PROMISE 

 

JAMES 1:12  BLESSED  IS  THE  MAN  THAT  ENDURETH  TEMPTATION  FOR  --- WHEN ---  HE  IS  TRIED  ---  HE  SHALL  RECEIVE  THE  CROWN  OF  LIFE ---WHICH  THE  LORD  HATH  PROMISED  TO  THEM  THAT  LOVE HIM

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

[Waggles]

47 minutes ago, AND IN THIS CORNER said:

only a believer can hold firmly to Christ in the first place

Populist nonsense.

People believe and are saved fully; then for some people they give up on faith and become worldly forsaking their testimonies and quenching the Spirit. 

[Paul James]

20 hours ago, AND IN THIS CORNER said:

I cannot imagine having to sit in a church classroom and have another christian talk to people the way you do......

I never said that.   Why have you quoted what another member said and put my name to it?

[BobRyan]

On 1/27/2021 at 11:09 AM, Open7 said:

I have came across some verses in the new testament that make it sound like you can lose your salvation. Here in Hebrews 3 verses 6 and 14 below (there are other verses that give this same vibe but I can’t recall them)

“But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.”

“We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.”

It says ‘if indeed we hold firmly’. I know you can say you have given your life to God, but many will not hold fast, but what if they did give their life to God but never went very far with it. I figured that when your saved your saved, that’s it, but these verses concern me a little for some people I know.

Can anyone help?

Thanks

Yes - they mean what they say. It would be cruel to warn about something that is not possible. Like warning someone not to flap their arms so fast that they would fly into outer space and run out of oxygen. That sort of warning is no what scripture engages in.. not even a little.

 

²⁰ Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; ²¹ for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. ²² See then the kindness and severity of God: to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; for otherwise you too will be cut off. ²³ And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again.Romans 11 makes it clear "you stand only by your faith" for the saved.

 

Gal 5 speaks of those who have been "severed from Christ, fallen from Grace".

Matt 13 warns of the stony ground that accepts the Gospel with great joy, springs to life and then later dies away.

John 15 warns of "branches IN ME" -- in Christ - that do not produce fruit and then are cut off and cast into the fire.

 

 

 

[Mike Mclees]

4 hours ago, BobRyan said:

Yes - they mean what they say. It would be cruel to warn about something that is not possible. Like warning someone not to flap their arms so fast that they would fly into outer space and run out of oxygen. That sort of warning is no what scripture engages in.. not even a little.

 

²⁰ Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; ²¹ for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. ²² See then the kindness and severity of God: to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; for otherwise you too will be cut off. ²³ And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again.Romans 11 makes it clear "you stand only by your faith" for the saved.

 

Gal 5 speaks of those who have been "severed from Christ, fallen from Grace".

Matt 13 warns of the stony ground that accepts the Gospel with great joy, springs to life and then later dies away.

John 15 warns of "branches IN ME" -- in Christ - that do not produce fruit and then are cut off and cast into the fire.

Like a man who could not walk and was healed, but remained in his chair was his healing useless? If one says i am saved and faithful to go to church every Sunday  believing that is all that is expected for him to be proud was he still not worthless. How ever tradition will cast many to the fire. 

 

 

 

Iff a man had a fortune in a vault but never used it, is it not then worthless and has helped no one. The man who feared to use his talent so he buried it. it was then as a worthless thing. 

[BobRyan]

15 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

Iff a man had a fortune in a vault but never used it, is it not then worthless and has helped no one. The man who feared to use his talent so he buried it. it was then as a worthless thing. 

In Jesus' teaching it was far worse than "the money had no value for you" - it is this... "²⁸ So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. ²⁹ For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. ³⁰ And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

[BobRyan]

10 hours ago, Josheb said:

There are a again some subtle but important amendments to this analogy. 

First, remember this is a parable; it is therefore a figurative teaching, not a literal teaching. Caution should be taken interpreting it and applying it. The literal teachings of the Bible explain the figurative. Second, the treasure is not the servant's; it is the master's treasure.

 

The argument that "the treasure is the masters" - is a focus on a detail in a parable where the parable is figurative. By pointing to that detail you are admiting that in literal teaching these details matter - however as they say in a parable "you cannot make a parable walk on all fours". So I agree it has a limit. But as in the case with all of Christ's parables the conclusion is literal.

In Luke 16 the rich man and Lazarus - the conclusion is "if they do not listen to Moses they will not listen though one rises from the dead".

In Matt 18 and the unforgiving servant - "so shall My Father do to each one of you if you do not forgive your brother"  and the "so shall" is a reference to "forgiveness revoked".

In the case of the unforgiving servant the conclusion is that the servant is cast into outer darkness - where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth as we see in Matt 13

Matthew 13:42

and they will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

 

Quote

 

Third, and perhaps most important, this parable is eschatological, not soteriological! All those involved are all already servants of the master. There are no non-servants in the parable.

 .

I agree that all start out saved in His parable -- but I would point out that eschatology deals with salvation since it includes who ultimately goes to heaven and who goes to hell.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by BobRyan
correct typo

[BobRyan]

21 hours ago, Josheb said:

 Lastly, the entire narrative, including the parable being discussed occurs in a pre-Calvary context, not a post-sacrifice one. Jesus is speaking to Jews about Jews, not Christians about Christians.   

Christians follow the teaching of Christ. In Matt 28 the final commission is "⁹ Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, ²⁰ teaching them to follow all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

 

The Gospel writers are teaching us what Christ commanded them... we are Christians. So yes - the teaching of Christ is very much priority one.

Gal 1:6-9 there is only ONE Gospel

Gal 3:8 - that Gospel was preached to Abraham

Matt 17 - Moses and Elijah stand with Christ ... IN glory... BEFORE the Cross!

Because Jesus is the Lamb of God slain from the foundations of the world in the sight of God who sees those things that are not as though they are. He is not limited by time and sequence.

One Gospel in all of time... not one for Jews and another one for everyone else

Edited May 4, 2021 by BobRyan
fix typo