Walking in the Spirit

[Justin Adams]

1 hour ago, Waggles said:

It is referred to as defending the gospel once delivered to the saints.

But people who live in glass houses ought not to throw stones.

Posting critical posts is also done by you and many others.

As for the Sabbath that is now achieved when we pray and walk in the Spirit as we now rest from our own works.

Did you know that 'saints' is a very poor translation of 'Holy Ones'?

The Sabbath never ended. So you are not exactly full of wisdom are you?

You spout the party line. But have you ever really studied for yourself?

 

[Paul James]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

Did I say I was unable to believe them? No! Did I say I did not believe them? No! 

Was it the Spirit of God that led you to insinuate unbelief in a fellow believer?

 

After your very long post, I asked my spiritual advisor how to respond:

But all he said was "Meow!"  I got the interpretation, which was: "My food bowl is empty!"   So, no joy there...

Edited January 31, 2021 by Paul James

[Waggles]

8 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Did you know that 'saints' is a very poor translation of 'Holy Ones'?

The Sabbath never ended. So you are not exactly full of wisdom are you?

You spout the party line. But have you ever really studied for yourself?

tsk, tsk someone is getting upset.

1John 2:27  But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.

John 14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

Jeremiah 31:34  And no longer shall each one teach his neighbour and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

1Corinthians 2:12  Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 
13  And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. 

[Paul James]

15 minutes ago, Waggles said:

tsk, tsk someone is getting upset.

1John 2:27  But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.

John 14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

Jeremiah 31:34  And no longer shall each one teach his neighbour and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

1Corinthians 2:12  Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 
13  And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. 

Isn't it interesting that what starts out as a stimulating discussion tends to descend into a tit for tat sniping and defensive responses?  Especially when topics like the baptism with the Spirit and the gift of tongues is involved.

I think we need to celebrate our diversity of backgrounds, cultures, how we were mentored and discipled, and our different interpretation of Scripture.

We must not forget that we have the treasure of the gospel in earthen vessels.  None of us have the perfect interpretation of Scripture.   This is what makes our discussion interesting and stimulating.

I certainly don't claim to have the definitive take on the process on how sinners are saved, converted, baptised with the Spirit, and what Spiritual gifts are more important than others.

For me, I was converted in an AOG church, inspired by the ministry of A A Allen,  fellowshiped with the man who was Smith Wigglesworth's pianist for his New Zealand meetings, discipled by a mentor who had a very strict Puritan theology, and taught the ministry of the Holy Spirit by a strict mature pastor whose background was Methodist Holiness, who was miraculously healed of an enlarged heart in his 40s, and loved the gift of tongues and rebuked anyone who made light of it.   My first wife deserted me, and I told the Lord that this was a test to see if I was a real Christian or not and had the distinct experience of Jesus standing with me, putting His hand on my shoulder and saying, "I am your shield and strength, a very present help in your time of trouble."   I went through seven years of storm and stress where I was ashamed of fellowshiping with other Christians,  and then through a series of events set up by the Holy Spirit to "turn the Titanic around" bring me back into full fellowship with Him and other believers.   It is interesting that after ditching all my spiritual mentors, the only one who stood the test of time was the strict old-school Pentecostal pastor who was a man of the Word and prayer and was an inspiration to me in the 1970s.

I went through a period of time several years ago when I had severe doubts about the gift of tongues - mainly through debates with Cessationists on another forum.   It was interesting when I walked away from the Pentecostal movement in 1978, that I couldn't stop praying in tongues which showed me at the time that tongues is not "Pentecostal" but Bible.  But in around 2013 I struggled with the gift even though I didn't want to stop praying in tongues.  After seeking the Lord about it, He showed me that He wrote a whole chapter of the Bible on it, and I should base my faith on His Word.  Also He reminded me of the instances in my previous church where I and another believer actually spoke a foreign language which was understood, while praying in tongues.  One was a Ghanaian village dialect understood by a visitor from Ghana, and the other by a NZ Maori lady who heard God encourage her in her own Maori language.  So my faith in tongues was restored, not by anyone in the church, but by the Holy Spirit Himself.

I am saying all this not to give any impression that I am anything more than just an ordinary believer, but to show that we are influenced by our background, mentoring, and life experiences.   I have learned to think outside of the religious box because of the times I have had to make sense of what was happening to me when events happened and I didn't have a "navigation chart" to guide me through them.  I have learned to trust the Holy Spirit to put me right if I get off the track.

So, I have an enquiring mind, and being on a forum like this helps to explore different questions concerning Scripture and our walk of faith.   I try to keep away from the attitude, "I'm right and you're wrong".   I don't think that this is what a Christian forum is all about.

[Alive]

11 minutes ago, Paul James said:

Isn't it interesting that what starts out as a stimulating discussion tends to descend into a tit for tat sniping and defensive responses?  Especially when topics like the baptism with the Spirit and the gift of tongues is involved.

I think we need to celebrate our diversity of backgrounds, cultures, how we were mentored and discipled, and our different interpretation of Scripture.

We must not forget that we have the treasure of the gospel in earthen vessels.  None of us have the perfect interpretation of Scripture.   This is what makes our discussion interesting and stimulating.

I certainly don't claim to have the definitive take on the process on how sinners are saved, converted, baptised with the Spirit, and what Spiritual gifts are more important than others.

For me, I was converted in an AOG church, inspired by the ministry of A A Allen,  fellowshiped with the man who was Smith Wigglesworth's pianist for his New Zealand meetings, discipled by a mentor who had a very strict Puritan theology, and taught the ministry of the Holy Spirit by a strict mature pastor whose background was Methodist Holiness, who was miraculously healed of an enlarged heart in his 40s, and loved the gift of tongues and rebuked anyone who made light of it.   My first wife deserted me, and I told the Lord that this was a test to see if I was a real Christian or not and had the distinct experience of Jesus standing with me, putting His hand on my shoulder and saying, "I am your shield and strength, a very present help in your time of trouble."   I went through seven years of storm and stress where I was ashamed of fellowshiping with other Christians,  and then through a series of events set up by the Holy Spirit to "turn the Titanic around" bring me back into full fellowship with Him and other believers.   It is interesting that after ditching all my spiritual mentors, the only one who stood the test of time was the strict old-school Pentecostal pastor who was a man of the Word and prayer and was an inspiration to me in the 1970s.

I went through a period of time several years ago when I had severe doubts about the gift of tongues - mainly through debates with Cessationists on another forum.   It was interesting when I walked away from the Pentecostal movement in 1978, that I couldn't stop praying in tongues which showed me at the time that tongues is not "Pentecostal" but Bible.  But in around 2013 I struggled with the gift even though I didn't want to stop praying in tongues.  After seeking the Lord about it, He showed me that He wrote a whole chapter of the Bible on it, and I should base my faith on His Word.  Also He reminded me of the instances in my previous church where I and another believer actually spoke a foreign language which was understood, while praying in tongues.  One was a Ghanaian village dialect understood by a visitor from Ghana, and the other by a NZ Maori lady who heard God encourage her in her own Maori language.  So my faith in tongues was restored, not by anyone in the church, but by the Holy Spirit Himself.

I am saying all this not to give any impression that I am anything more than just an ordinary believer, but to show that we are influenced by our background, mentoring, and life experiences.   I have learned to think outside of the religious box because of the times I have had to make sense of what was happening to me when events happened and I didn't have a "navigation chart" to guide me through them.  I have learned to trust the Holy Spirit to put me right if I get off the track.

So, I have an enquiring mind, and being on a forum like this helps to explore different questions concerning Scripture and our walk of faith.   I try to keep away from the attitude, "I'm right and you're wrong".   I don't think that this is what a Christian forum is all about.

Thank you--a wonderful post.

Praise the Lord!

[Paul James]

 

There was a difference between who asked Jesus to demonstrate if He was the Messiah or not.   He rebuffed the Pharisees when they asked Him for a sign, because He knew they were not sincere in their questioning.  But the disciples of John who came to ask Him whether He was the Messiah or not, were sincere and were actually sent by John to find out.

"When the men came to Jesus, they said, "John the Baptist sent us to you to ask, 'Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?' At that very time Jesus cured many who had diseases, sicknesses and evil spirits, and gave sight to many who were blind. So he replied to the messengers, "Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor" (Luke 7:19-22).

This is how Jesus responded.  Note that He did not quote Scripture to them to prove that He was the Messiah.  He pointed to His supernatural ministry.   For the same reason, Paul purposed to show the supernatural demonstration of the Spirit to the Corinthians to show that Jesus Christ was really alive and the gospel is true.  The effect was that pagans turned to Christ and the Corinthian church was planted.

So, it is one thing to say we are walking in the Spirit, it is quite another to show that we are through the works that the Holy Spirit does through us.  If the sick are healed, demons are cast out, and souls are saved through our work and ministry for the Lord, then we don't need to quote Scripture to prove it.  The works themselves will prove that we are true representatives of Christ.

[Waggles]

No matter how much mainstream worldly denominations protest against Pentecostal revival in these last days God is pouring out his Spirit truly upon all flesh.

Luke 4:18  The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed,

All throughout the 'uttermost' parts of the world the full gospel is being preached with signs and wonders. People in their hundreds at a time have repented of their dead works and turned around to seek salvation in God through Jesus; full immersion baptism for the remission of their sins and baptism in the Holy Spirit evidenced by praying in tongues.

Then come the wonderful miracles: the blind see; the lame throw away their crutches and walk; the deaf do hear; drunkards become righteously sober; criminals become righteous and often make peace with previous victims; and so much more.

People from my church regularly travel to Papua New Guinea where there is a very substantial Pentecostal revival going on and they have mass rallies where people share their testimonies about healings and miracles to the crowds. Back home we watched a video filmed by Julie and David of a blind woman who when coming out of the baptism pool could see the world through her eyes for the first time. It was awesome. She was gaping in wonder at what she could see. 

Testimonies to Holy Spirit revival and to the outpouring of the latter rain. 

I am sorry for you cessationists but Pentecostalism is alive and well.

[steve morrow]

SPIRIT  OF  TRUTH 

EZEKIEL 36:25  then will I sprinkle --CLEAN  WATER-- upon you and you shall be clean from all your filthiness and from all your idols will I cleanse you   --36:26--

a new heart also will I give you and --A  NEW  SPIRIT  WILL  I  PUT  WITHIN  YOU-- and I will take away the stony heart heart out of your flesh and I will give you an heart of flesh  --36:27--

and I will --PUT  MY  SPIRIT WITHIN  YOU-- and cause you to --WALK  IN  MY  STATUTES-- and you shall keep  MY  judgements and do them

 

EPHESIANS 5:9  FOR  THE  FRUIT  OF  THE  SPIRIT  IS  IN  ALL  GOODNESS  AND  RIGHTEOUSNESS  AND  TRUTH

1 JOHN 1:4  I  HAVE  NO  GREATER  JOY  THAN  TO  HEAR  THAT  MY  CHILDREN  WALK  IN  TRUTH  

1 JOHN 5:6  THIS  IS  HE  THAT  CAME  BY  --WATER  AND  BLOOD-- EVEN  JESUS  CHRIST  NOT  BY  WATER  ONLY  BUT  BY  --WATER  AND  BLOOD-- AND  IT  IS  THE  SPIRIT   THAT  BEARETH  WITNESS  ---BECAUSE  THE  SPIRIT  IS  TRUTH---

JOHN 6:63  it is the spirit that quickeneth --the flesh profiteth nothing--THE  WORDS  THAT  I  SPEAK  UNTO  YOU  THEY  ARE  SPIRIT  AND  THEY  ARE  LIFE--

PSALM 119:50  this is my comfort in my affliction for thy word hath quickened me 

PSALM 119:37  turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity and quicken thou me in thy way

 

LUKE 8:21  and  HE  answered and said unto them   MY  mother and  MY  brethren are these which hear the word of  GOD  and do it 

JOHN 14:6  JESUS  saith unto him --I  AM  THE  WAY--THE  TRUTH--AND  THE  LIFE-- no one cometh unto  THE  FATHER  --BUT  BY  ME--

PROVERBS 8:7  for  MY  mouth shall speak  --TRUTH-- and wickedness is an abomination to  MY  lips   --8:8--

all the words of my mouth are in righteousness there is nothing froward or perverse in them

 

ROMANS 10:3  FOR  THEY  BEING  IGNORANT  OF  GODS  RIGHTEOUSNESS  AND  GOING  ABOUT  TO  ESTABLISH  THEIR  OWN  RIGHTEOUSNESS  HAVE  NOT  SUBMITTED  THEMSELVES  UNTO  THE  RIGHTEOUSNESS  OF  GOD

WHAT  ARE  YOUR  WORDS  ---  FILTHY  RAGS ???   FOOLISHNESS ???  WICKEDNESS ???

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

[Paul James]

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

Personally, I have always and continue to find it curious that the "descent" invariably begins with a single off-topic post or otherwise irrelevant content, often in personal derision of of another, and neither pointing out the digression nor requests for return will change anything. In many cases the irrelevancies are irrelevant but with certain topics - like the meaning of walking in the Spirit - the digression serves as an object lesson inherently demonstrating the point(s) being discussed. 

Usually in antithesis of the truth. 

Some folks call  it "interesting". 

I remember being part of a men's Bible study in the Presbyterian church I was attending (23 years).  We started with the programmed study, but often we went right away from the subject, and consequently was a very interesting and fun time.

When we got a new minister and she started a "Bible Exploration" weeknight study, she kept right to her programme, and I found it relatively boring, because instead of allowing the members to freely contribute, she insisted on "teaching" us according to her own view of the passage.

For a couple of years, I attended an "Equipping Evening" at another church, and it allowed anyone who had something to share to get up and give his "word" usually 15 minutes at a time, with the main speaker summing up at the end.   It was a great evening because it departed from the one-man-band type of teaching giving his performance at the front with passive pew sitters merely listening.   It celebrated the diversity of the group, and the evenings did much to increase our faith.

So when I start a thread, I have no problem with the range of answers I get, even though the responses go way off-topic.  Many of the off-topic answers have been fascinating and stimulating.

I guess it has all to do with expectations.  If a person starts a thread expecting hard and fast strictly on-topic answers, then he should not be surprised if his thread runs out of "puff" after a few replies.

I think that the tit for tat disputes come from people who think that every thread should always be on-topic.   I think that is unrealistic, and if contributors don't like the way the thread is going, they should walk away from it and limit their responses to threads that meet their expectations.

[Sower]

1 hour ago, Paul James said:

I think that the tit for tat disputes come from people who think that every thread should always be on-topic.   I think that is unrealistic, and if contributors don't like the way the thread is going, they should walk away from it and limit their responses to threads that meet their expectations.

I believe most here have enough respect to the OP  poster to stay on topic.
Maybe it's something to do with their trying to  'walk in the spirit'
It shouldn't be unrealistic in a Christian Forum to follow rules.......