Does water baptism precede regeneration?

[exrockstar]

On 2/1/2021 at 12:26 PM, Sower said:

Ah...the poor thief...

I wasn't following this topic because it comes up every now and then. Jump to page 9-10 and "yada yada...works...yada yada." Jump to page 1, read this, and nothing more needs to be said. 

[exrockstar]

On 2/2/2021 at 11:35 AM, Walter Goraj jr said:

Water In the NT has more spiritual significance than anything. You probably already knew this but to baptize means to "wash", as in the washing  away of our sins.... "the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" ( Titus 3:5).

It's truly sad how much emphasis ( or misunderstanding) is given to the physical act of water baptism. God commands us to be baptized with the Holy Ghost, not in a tub of water. In other words the symbolic act of water baptism does not guarantee anything of eternal value.  

Let's say for example , That a born-again believer does not attend church (the  building), considering the time that they live in. They do not have to be committed to a congregation over the ordinance of baptism or even " communion ". We might as well add the " gotcha" verse ( Hebrews 10:25), which does not require church attendance.

You stated: "Either Jesus took care of this whole deal for us or he did not."

He did . He "came by water and blood" ( 1Jn 5:6)....cleansed by His blood. Thank you Lord Jesus for atoning for the sins of your people. 

Agree with what you are saying. We forget that the concept of water baptism and saying "the kingdom of God is at hand" was controversial and blasphemous. We can even say that it was not the apostles doing miracles on their own by rather by assistance of the Holy Spirit which they knew nothing of until Christ said he will send a "Helper. (John 14:16)" There were many things that were "working" in the background that it was not until Paul joined the apostles, after Christs death, that more revealing continued such as "spiritual baptism." The debate or split happens is if we should continue doing water baptism now that we know what spiritual baptism is. To me, it's either/or - it does not matter. Just don't make me feel guilty of my choice because I can hold the mirror back on what the bible says for someone to do and they do not.

Edited February 4, 2021 by exrockstar

[Regenerated-Adult]

The main point is that water baptism isn't the baptism of the Holy Spirit which SAVES people.  It is more like a corollary or something you do AFTER you are saved to confirm it as a witness to the world that you are with Jesus Christ.

Works has nothing to do with salvation either.  People confuse works with sanctification, which is what happens AFTER you have been saved. 

It seems so basic and easy to understand I am baffled by people confusing this simple matter.

[Peterlag]

12 hours ago, OneLight said:

Sure it is taught after Acts 2.  Read Acts 8; 9; 10; 11; 16; 18; 19 and 22.  Sure the Apostles baptized people.  Paul even admits to doing so personally.  Read 1 Corinthians 1

Give me 1 verse. Just 1 where an Apostle baptized with water. I will wait.

[Peterlag]

6 hours ago, Waggles said:

WHAT !!?? 

You must have pages missing from your NT.

Do you have a verse. Just 1 where an apostle baptized with water? I will wait.

[Arrabon]

20 hours ago, Arrabon said:

The opinions here are pretty diverse. I have a pretty clear idea of how this works for me, so let me share my thought to all of you in love and kindness, hoping I will receive the same in return.

Throughout the bible the topic of "ONE" is a pretty large subject, but has to do with the idea of "NON-OTHERS. Something singular!

In Ephesians 4:4-6, scripture says, (4) "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling: (5) One Lord, one faith, ONE  BAPTISM, (6) one God and Father of all.

In John 14:6, " Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the Life. No one (Different context meaning) comes to the Father but through ME- Jesus is the ONLY ONE.

"Heis" is the koine Greek word for ONE, and means to the exclusion of all others - NON-OTHER.

CONTRADICTIONS AND CONFUSION ABOUT BAPTISM.

Is Cor. 14:33 says, "For God is not a God of confusion, but of peace ("eirenes") or  unity, harmony, and absence of confusion (In this context).

No matter what anyone tells you, there are no contradictions or confusing statements made by God in the bible.

Only confusion by man from not studying out thoroughly enough what God meant.

We have being discussed, 2 baptisms. Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and water immersion baptism.

Only ONE is effective for salvation, and both are in unity and harmony with not only each other, but the rest of scripture - NO CONTRADICTIONS!!!

So, we have to make them work in our own minds TOGETHER, without twisting anything to get a meaning that is to JUSTIFY anyone's opinion.

And remember, you can't have one baptism being followed by another, because God says one baptism. ONLY ONE!!

I think it's a shame this post was ignored and no comments made.

 

There is a lot of good information here that would be nice to here discussed, even if people disagree, it would be nice to hear why 

[Justin Adams]

34 minutes ago, Peterlag said:

Do you have a verse. Just 1 where an apostle baptized with water? I will wait.

Mabe Peter with Cornelius' family or Ananias with Saul, or Phillip with the Eunuch.

Or the Jailer and family. Quite a few really.

[Waggles]

1 hour ago, Peterlag said:

Do you have a verse. Just 1 where an apostle baptized with water? I will wait.

And which verses state that they did not baptise in water?

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Peterlag said:

Give me 1 verse. Just 1 where an Apostle baptized with water. I will wait.

I did in the post you replied to, but apparently you did not read the scripture I pointed to.  Sad that you do not look into what others say, referencing the scripture given, as the Bareans did.  Since you did not, here is what Paul said to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 1:14-18

I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name.  Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas.  Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other.  For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

[Waggles]

1 hour ago, Peterlag said:

Do you have a verse. Just 1 where an apostle baptized with water? I will wait.

1Corinthians 15:29  Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf?

Logically this is referring to water baptism not Holy Spirit baptism. A disciple cannot be baptised in the Holy Spirit multiple times and it would be pointless to do this for the dead. 

A strange first century practice I know but they apparently did it. And I have heard on the grapevine that the Mormons do this water baptism for the dead as well.