Does water baptism precede regeneration?

[Guest clancy]

2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This is your Gospel and your groups Gospel 

Can you explain what you mean...I have edited the rest of this sentence...what are you saying here?

[enoob57]

On 2/1/2021 at 4:37 PM, Waggles said:

Christians, even Spirit-filled disciples, walk away from their faith and throw in the towel.

I think I will go with John on this one
 

1 John 2:19

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
KJV
 

[Charlie744]

4 hours ago, Waggles said:

Water baptism is not done to earn salvation - one undergoes water baptism because God wants us to do this.

Water baptism is clearly explained in the scriptures as being done for the remissions [forgiveness] of our sins.

Death to our previous lives; burial (dead in Christ); and resurrection to a new life - a clean slate; our sins not remembered by God.

Then comes the need for baptism of the Holy Spirit to empower us to achieve this new life in Christ Jesus. 

Salvation is a promise that we look forward to and achieving through God: to either die in the Lord, or to be transformed and to rise up to meet the Lord in the air when he returns.

We do not obtain salvation on a particular day when we believed or whatever, but it is the first day of being saved and walking with God. A lifelong commitment that unfortunately many many Christians fail at. 

2Tim 4:6  For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. 
4:7  I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 
4:8  Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing. 

Gosh, there has been so much written from both sides...... but the good news we are all on the same team!  I personally do not believe that anyone will lose their salvation if they are baptized in water - partial or full immersion. This is one of OUR interpretations in following Jesus. If we have accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior and His Holy Spirit, we are good to go..... some of us maybe "dryer" than the other, but we will all be together with Him.

Please forgive me for repeating myself ---- it is in regard to the question of what is the definition of a soul= 2 or 3 parts, do we have a soul, does the soul or spirit immediately go to heaven at death or is there a "soul sleep".

I would like to try and bring my thoughts on "what is a soul" into this discussion if  I may.... 

I have mentioned that Gen. 2:7 gives us the definition of man / Adam. We are made of two parts - dust of the earth and God's breathing into this formed dust. However, I am not sure there are more than ......1 (me) that believes this "God's breathing into Adam" is NOT air but His Holy Spirit (He did not give air to any thing else He created in this manner). This was special and I believe this created Adam in a HOLY Spirit type way.

Unfortunately, Adam sinned and, my opinion, he lost this special gift - this Holy Spirit like shroud. He was now mortal and could no longer be in the presence of God - he was kicked out of the Garden.

Now in addition to God imparting His Holy Spirit into Adam, we also are aware that Adam had NO  part in 1) his own creation, and 2) the HS being given within him. This of course tells me that it is consistent with all the Scriptures to follow where God reminds us that everything comes from, is given to and continues by God ALONE  - SO THAT NO MAN SHALL BOAST..... We must acknowledge HIM in everything under the sun. 

So we have in the beginning Adam's creation with His Holy Spirit dwelling inside him.. He loses the latter and it is now necessary for Adam to somehow restore that Holy Spirit in order to get back with HIm in heaven.... without this, he will surely die - second death.

There is ONLY ONE way we (Adam) can restore the HS back into us and that of course is by accepting the HS which was offered to us at Pentecost. Therefore, in keeping with what God had done in the Garden and what we (Adam) had done to lose the HS in the Garden, we have to accept HIS GIFT THIS ONE TIME AND ONE TIME ONLY. Meaning, our being baptized in HIS HS is a gift for our restoration  / our salvation and there is NOTHING we can do or think we should do to add to this opportunity from God to restore our HS.  

Therefore, we will come full circle.... no water baptism is required, necessary or will add one iota to our salvation.... it will be restored exactly as in the beginning - with NO help or assistance or outside ritual to be considered. God will do this..... so that NO man can boast. 

Just my thoughts, Charlie

Oh forgot.... and we can easily see today just how many denominations insist, require their members are water baptized - some in order to be a member of that church, others say it is necessary to be saved, so on and on.... Man has and is using WB as a requirement (fence to get in), or they may boast they insist their members be WB and have the "truth" for salvation, but all of this is something that man "adds to God's Plan"..... He did not include in His offering of the HS.... "just add water" and you will be saved...... The Pharisees were proficient at putting up fences for their congregation and we are simply no different.  

Edited March 12, 2021 by Charlie744
hit button before I intended to send

[Waggles]

1 hour ago, clancy said:

If God gives a believer to Jesus....he won’t lose one of them.

Are you proposing OSAS ? 

[Guest clancy]

3 minutes ago, Waggles said:

Are you proposing OSAS ? 

I am quoting scripture....who ever the Father gives to Jesus he will never lose one of them....how that equates to OSAS....please explain?

 

OSAS....what does that mean even?

Edited March 12, 2021 by clancy

[Charlie744]

3 minutes ago, clancy said:

I am quoting scripture....who ever the Father gives to Jesus he will never lose one of them....how that equates to OSAS....please explain?

 

OSAS....what does that mean even?

Once saved always saved....no matter what one does after being saved and accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior, they will never lose their salvation..... 

But I believe Paul had something to say about that...... Charlie

[Guest clancy]

1 hour ago, clancy said:

Many Christians fail at?.......what do you mean?

Waggles, can you also answer this question I asked of you please?

 

[Waggles]

41 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

and we can easily see today just how many denominations insist, require their members are water baptized

NO - God insists on the necessity for water baptism. Baptism is of deep spiritual significance and the scriptures 

1: command us to do so

2: inform us that it is for the remission of our sins

3: the Christians that we read of in Acts and the epistles are all baptised in water and baptised in the Holy Spirit

4: Jesus himself was baptised in water to fullfil all righteousness and then baptised in the Holy Spirit.

Luke 18:16  But Jesus called them to him, saying, “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. 
17  Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.” 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Waggles

[Guest clancy]

Just now, Charlie744 said:

Once saved always saved....no matter what one does after being saved and accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior, they will never lose their salvation..... 

But I believe Paul had something to say about that...... Charlie

I don’t agree that one can do what one chooses after salvation...OSAS...I can’t find that anywhere in the Bible.

 

[Charlie744]

Just now, clancy said:

I don’t agree that one can do what one chooses after salvation...OSAS...I can’t find that anywhere in the Bible.

 

I certainly agree with you on both comments but there are many who subscribe to this ...... Charlie