Women forced to keep silence in Church

[Paul James]

3 hours ago, Starise said:

I respect anyone who studies the Bible, looks at all ancient texts and references. Yet I STILL want to lay my eyes on what it was they did if I have a question. This is the only way to be sure. I will often look at the studies of others but always with a wary eye. God tells each of us to study to show ourselves approved.

If I trust an investor with all of my savings, you can bet I'm going to look into the credentials of that investor.

Of course you will.  I am very fussy whose books I read and whose messages I view on Youtube.

I have now put links to three separate dissertations, so we are not receiving and depending on the conclusions of just one source.   The Scripture says, "In the multitude of counsellors there is safety".

Although poor King Ahab had 400 prophets who gave him a bum steer concerning his upcoming battle the the Syrians.  So the multitude of counsellors didn't do him much good!   But then God deliberately allowed a lying spirit to be in the mouths of those prophets because He determined to end Ahab's life in that battle.

But the authors of the dissertations I have provided would have had their work closely examined by the most qualified professors to ensure that their examinations, arguments, and conclusions were of the highest standards, especially for the M.A. theses.   Part of the professionalism of the authors and their professors is that they are able to "de-objectivize" their theological bias in their evaluation and grading of the dissertations.

I was very fortunate that I did my M.Div through an on-line Bible College which expressed no theological bias, and as a Pentecostal, noone put me down for that, and I was able to write my assignments and research papers as led by the Holy Spirit, and got high grades for them.

I know that there are Bible colleges that have their theological bias, and would exert their influence on their students.  In some ways, doing a degree majoring in theology might avoid bias pressure if it was done through a secular university - as long as the theology department is not riddled with liberals, as many are.   In some ways having a totally non Christian supervisor for a post graduate degree thesis would be better because my work would be evaluated on its own merits rather than through the filter of someone with a theological bias.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Paul James

[Duck]

22 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

The woman at the well is a great example.

[steve morrow]

SPEAK  ALL  THE  WORDS  

DEUTERONOMY 18:20  but the prophet which --SHALL  PRESUME  TO  SPEAK  A  WORD  IN  MY  NAME-- WHICH  I  HAVE  NOT  COMMANDMED  HIM  TO  SPEAK  OR  THAT  SHALL  SPEAK  IN  THE  NAME  OF  OTHER  GODS  -----  EVEN  THAT  PROPHET  SHALL  DIE 

--18:21-- and if thou say in thy heart how shall we know the word which  THE  LORD  hath not spoken

--18:22--  when a prophet speaketh in  THE  NAME  OF  THE  LORD  if the thing follow not nor come to pass that is the thing which  --THE  LORD  HATH  NOT  SPOKEN-- but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously -- THOU  SHALT  NOT  BE  AFRAID  OF  HIM 

 

PSALM 36:3  THE  WORDS  OF  HIS  MOUTH  ARE  INIQUITY  AND  DECEIT  HE  HATH  LEFT  OFF  TO  BE  WISE  AND  TO  DO  GOOD 

1 CORINTHIANS 15:33  BE  NOT  DECEIVED  EVIL  COMMUNICATIONS  CORRUPT  GOOD  MANNERS 

 

ROMANS 15:18  for I will not dare to speak of any of those things which  CHRIST  hath not wrought by me to make the gentiles --OBEDIENT  BY  WORD  AND  DEED

1 CORINTHIANS 14:37  IF  ANY  MAN  --THINK  HIMSELF-- TO  BE  A  PROPHET  OR  SPIRITUAL  LET  HIM  ACKNOWLEDGE  THAT  THE  THINGS  THAT  I  WRITE  UNTO  YOU  ARE  THE ---COMMANDMENTS  OF  THE  LORD--- 

 

1 TIMOTHY 2:11  LET  THE  WOMAN  LEARN  IN  SILENCE  WITH  ALL  SUBJECTION 

--12--  BUT  I  SUFFER  NOT  A  WOMAN  TO  TEACH  NOR  TO  USURP  AUTHORITY  OVER  THE  MAN  BUT  TO  BE  IN  SILENCE 

COLOSSIANS 3:18  WIVES  SUBMIT  YOURSELVES  UNTO  YOUR  OWN  HUSBANDS  AS  IT  IS  FIT  IN  THE  LORD  

--3:19-- HUSBANDS  LOVE  YOUR  WIVES  AND  BE  NOT  BITTER  WITH  THEM 

EPHESIANS 5:24  THEREFORE  AS  THE  CHURCH  IS  SUBJECT  UNTO  CHRIST  SO  LET  THE  WIVES  BE  TO  THEIR  OWN  HUSBANDS  --IN  EVERYTHING--

--5:25-- HUSBANDS  LOVE  YOUR  WIVES  --EVEN  AS  CHRIST  ALSO  LOVED  THE  CHURCH  AND  GAVE  HIMSELF  FOR  IT  

--5:26-- THAT  HE  MIGHT  SANCTIFY  AND  CLEANSE  IT  WITH  THE  WASHING  OF  WATER  BY  THE  WORD  

1 CORINTHIANS 14:34  LET  YOUR  WOMEN  KEEP  SILENCE  IN  THE  CHURCHES  FOR  IT  IS  NOT  PERMITTED  UNTO  THEM  TO  SPEAK  BUT  THEY  ARE  COMMANDED TO  BE  UNDER  OBEDIENCE  AS  ALSO  SAITH  THE  LAW

 

HEBREWS 1:1  GOD  who at sundry times and in diverse manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets  

--1:2-- hath in these last days --SPOKEN-- unto us by  HIS  SON  whom  HE  hath appointed heir of --ALL THINGS-- by whom also  HE  made the worlds 

--1:3-- who being the brightness of  HIS  glory and the express image of  HIS  person and  --UPHOLDING  ALL  THINGS---BY  THE  WORD  OF  HIS  POWER---WHEN  HE  HAD  BY  HIMSELF--- purged our sins sat down on the right hand of the majesty on high 

 

2 PETER 1:3  ACCORDING  AS  HIS  DIVINE  POWER  --HATH  GIVEN-- unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness through the knowledge of  HIM  that  hath called  us to glory and virtue

PSALM 108:12  give us help from trouble --- FOR  VAIN  IS  THE  HELP  OF  MAN

 

PHILIPPIANS 2:21  FOR  ALL  SEEK  THEIR  OWN  NOT  THE  THINGS  WHICH  ARE  JESUS  CHRISTS 

COLOSSIANS 2:8  BEWARE  LEST  ANY  MAN  SPOIL  YOU  THROUGH  PHILOSOPHY  AND  VAIN  DECEIT  --AFTER  THE  TRADITION  OF  MEN--  AFTER  THE  RUDIMENTS  OF  THE  WORLD  -----AND  NOT  AFTER  CHRIST-----

 

               *************************************************

EZEKIEL 13:7  HAVE  YOU  NOT  SEEN  A  VAIN  VISION  AND  HAVE  YOU  NOT  SPOKEN  A  LYING  DIVINATION  WHEREAS  YOU  SAY  THE  LORD  SAITH  IT  ALBEIT I  HAVE  NOT  SPOKEN  IT

               *************************************************

MARK 7:9  AND  HE  SAID  UNTO  THEM  FULL  WELL  YOU  REJECT  THE  COMMANDMENT  OF  GOD  THAT  YOU  MAY  KEEP  YOUR  OWN  TRADITION

               *************************************************

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

 

[David1701]

On 2/4/2021 at 7:23 PM, Paul James said:

It was a bit of an eye opener to discover how anti-woman ministry-wise the KJV is.  It is because the manuscripts contributing to it were meddled with in the Second Century to make it appear that Paul taught that women should be silent and have no part in the teaching, preaching, prophetic ministry of the church, when such was not the case.

You have no evidence for this undermining of the Bible's veracity.  Not only that but the prohibition against women speaking in assemblies is nothing to do with prophecy; however, it certainly is to do with teaching and preaching.

1 Tim. 2:11-14 (EMTV)

11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.
12 And I do not permit a woman to teach, nor to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam first was formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, has come to be in transgression.

This is Paul speaking, in his apostolic authority.

[David1701]

8 hours ago, Paul James said:

Of course you will.  I am very fussy whose books I read and whose messages I view on Youtube.

I have now put links to three separate dissertations, so we are not receiving and depending on the conclusions of just one source.   The Scripture says, "In the multitude of counsellors there is safety".

 

When those "counsellors" are casting doubt on the word of God, then there is no safety in that whatever.

[Waggles]

ESV - English Standard Version

1Co 14:33  For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, 
1Co 14:34  the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. 
1Co 14:35  If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. 
1Co 14:36  Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached? 

RSV - Revised Standard Version

 33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, 34 the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. 35 If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. 36 What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached?

These translations must have been undertaken by well meaning amateurs.

[Paul James]

6 hours ago, David1701 said:

You have no evidence for this undermining of the Bible's veracity.  Not only that but the prohibition against women speaking in assemblies is nothing to do with prophecy; however, it certainly is to do with teaching and preaching.

1 Tim. 2:11-14 (EMTV)

11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.
12 And I do not permit a woman to teach, nor to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam first was formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, has come to be in transgression.

This is Paul speaking, in his apostolic authority.

My link entitled "Women's Ministry in the Church" gives a good explanation of this passage of Scripture.   It shows that Paul was giving his personal preference on how Timothy should deal with specific issues that were existent in the Ephesian church at the time.   It appears that there were aggressive women in that church who were overruling the leadership.  Reading between the lines, I think that Timothy wrote to Paul asking for advice (because Paul's letters were often replies to letters that he received, such as the letter from Chloe's household that caused him to reply with 1 Corinthians).

It seemed that Timothy was coming under criticism because of his relatively young age for being a bishop and was undergoing some stress and discouragement.  He would have written to Paul for advice, and 1 Timothy was Paul's answer to deal with the specific problems that Timothy was facing in the Ephesian church.

[Paul James]

6 hours ago, David1701 said:

When those "counsellors" are casting doubt on the word of God, then there is no safety in that whatever.

I think you are starting to troll me now, without any substantive material to add to the discussion.

[Alive]

OP requested his thread be shut down.

[Willa]

On 2/4/2021 at 6:08 PM, Paul James said:

Some ultra-fundamentalists dislike academic scholarship because they have the mistaken notion that it is used to water down God's Word.   Although some liberal academics do this, the best Bible scholars are honest and professional in the way they approach the Scriptures and they do their best not to be influenced by any theological bias.

Personally I prefer the NKJV and the ESV.  I particularly like the better translation of Greek verbs in places like 1 John 3:4-9 in ESV.