I do not know why we have so many Christians who believe the entire Bible is written directly to them...

[Justin Adams]

He also said He is Lord of the Sabbath. The day it is all finished from creation to resurrection. All the rest days of the Lord.

He said that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. Seems that some have missed that down thru the centuries.

[Waggles]

9 hours ago, Sower said:

It has produced a tremendous crop of heresies throughout the length and breadth of this and other lands; it has divided Christians and wrecked churches and assemblies without number; it has lifted up its votaries in intellectual and spiritual pride to an appalling extent, so that they look with supreme contempt upon Christians who do not accept their peculiar views;

Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism: A Bishop Rethinks the Meaning of Scripture
by John Shelby Spong

Thank God I am a fundamentalist. 

 

[Brother Duke]

On 2/9/2021 at 7:34 PM, Peterlag said:

I do not know why we have so many Christians who believe the entire Bible is written directly to them, the Church of God. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate such thinking, and I would like to add nothing could be further from the truth. It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know. That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32).

To rightly understand the Word of God, one must understand what part is written to the Church of God and what part is written for the learning of the Church. Every word from Genesis 1:1, to Revelation 22:21, is written for our learning. However, not all of the words from Genesis 1:1, to Revelation 22:21, are addressed to us.

We must learn to distinguish not only the various people, but also the different time periods God has spoken to if we want to understand the written Word of God. The time God spoke to the children of Israel is not the same time period He has spoken to us. The time He spoke to the prophets in the time of the Old Testament is not the same time period He spoke to His Son Jesus Christ in the time of the gospels.

The different time periods in the Bible are called dispensations. The Greek word for “dispensation” is “oikonomia” meaning the act of administering. The word “o’kos” means house, and “nemo” means to dispense, to weigh or deal out, as a steward or housekeeper. Therefore, the word was used to manage or administrate a household. The word is used three times in Luke 16:2-4, where it's translated “stewardship.” In four other places it's translated “dispensation.” I like the word administration because it communicates very well with our current English language. We must understand these administrations have  different time periods in the Bible and each have their own beginning and their own ending—with the exception of the last one.

The first is called the Paradise administration. It was the time of innocence, the time before the fall that ends with Adam and Eve being expelled from the garden of the original paradise.

The second is the Patriarchal administration. It was the time after the fall from the Garden of Eden, but before the Law was given. This second administration ended with the coming of the Law to Moses.

The third is the Legal administration. It's suited only to Israel under the Law, and is sometimes called the Mosaic Law that terminated when Jesus Christ died.

The fourth is the Christ administration that overlapped and functioned within the Law administration. Both the Law and the Christ administration officially ended with the coming of Pentecost.

The fifth started on the day of Pentecost as recorded in the second chapter of the book of Acts. This is the present administration of Grace that is for the Church of God. It's the time period you and I now belong to because it's the Grace administration, without any distinction made between the Jew and the Gentile, which will end with the appearing of Jesus Christ.

The sixth begins with the appearing of Jesus Christ, and the gathering together of the saints. Believe it or not, this administration ends with Satan destroyed, and the great white throne judgment.

The seventh is the Glory or Paradise administration, which will not have an ending.

Administrations must be adapted to the time periods in which they are carried out. The administration with Adam before the fall was different from the one with his immediate family after the fall. The administration with Israel “under the law” was carried out on different principles from the present administration of Grace. This present administration is different from the one that will characterize the return of Christ. The administration of Judgment will be different from the one that will belong to the administration of Glory, when all things shall be gathered together in one under the headship of Christ.

We will never understand the truth of God’s Word if we neglect to rightly divide the subject matter. As far as we are concerned in this Grace administration, what happened to Israel in the Old Testament was written for our learning. If we do not rightly divide to whom it's addressed—the Jew, Gentile, or the Church of God, we will use one truth to contradict another truth, and we will use what is true for one group in contrast to what is also true for another group.

These different administrations are suited to different times because God has spoken everything to its proper time and administration. We will never understand the truth of God’s Word if we read into one administration what God tells us belongs to another administration. If we believe what God said in one administration and carry it into another administration that was on a different principle, we will be taking what is true for one time, and using it to contradict what is also true for another time. When we mix them all together, by jumbling the whole Bible together: Law, Gospel, Grace, Judgment, Glory, Jew, Gentile, and the Church of God, we will be very confused in our understanding of the truth of God’s Word.

What is written directly to the Jews, belongs to and is for the Jews. What is written directly to the Gentiles, belongs to and is for the Gentiles. What is written directly to the Church of God, belongs to and is for the Church of God. What does God mean when He tells us that the visions shown to Isaiah was concerning Judah and Jerusalem? It was not addressed to us or written concerning us, but it was addressed to and concerning Judah and Jerusalem. It would be dishonest for the Church of God to interpret to the Church of God what God said concerns Israel.

The present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. It deals with the new covenant, and it belongs to the time that is called the administration of the mystery. It's a period in time that was not made known to any one prior to this administration because God kept it a secret since the world began. From this our Grace administration, we learn God’s secret purpose that He had placed in Himself, according to the administration of Grace, which was first revealed to the apostle Paul.

From the eighth chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” and “that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

From the sixth chapter of the book of Deuteronomy, it was written to those who lived under the Law administration, “it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.” However, from the third chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight.” What was written to those who lived under the Law administration is the complete opposite of what is written to us who live under the Grace administration.

We will always be in darkness and confusion regarding the truth of God’s Word if we do not understand the different administrations in the Bible. All hope for our redemption is in Jesus Christ, who was born into this world, died, and in the resurrection he became the head of a new creation. The living resurrected Christ Jesus has become the one great subject that occupies the Word of God that the church belongs to. It's this Christ Jesus that is the key to the divine revelation in the Word of God for this our Grace administration. The contents of the New Testament must be understood in reference to Christ Jesus our Lord because the doctrine and nature of God for this our Grace administration are centered in His Christ.

This is a kind of view from a dispensational type of thinking.   I come from a type of thinking that we are all Israel and there is no separation of Church from Israel.  We are all adopted/grafted into Israel  It does not matter if you are native born or adopted.

I see many mention we are covered under the New Covenant but where is the New Covenant specified with Gentiles?

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah

Where is the covenant with the house of Gentiles?  God made his covenant with Israel and those that are adopted into Israel.

First of all not all that are native born Israel are Israel.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

We are adopted into Israel through Christ.

Romans 8:14-17 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

Galatians 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 

Ephesians 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,

Ephesians 3:6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,

Revelation 21:7 He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Brother Duke
Spelling

[Starise]

While different things happened at different times in the Bible, I think the danger lies in saying that God decided to do certain things only at a certain times never to be repeated. This line of thought attempts to put limitations on God.

I have heard  dispensationalists say  God doesn't heal the way He once did, yet we have indication God does in fact, still heal when He takes a notion to do so. Sometimes it looks more like an attempt to shoe horn  THEIR time frame onto a template that doesn't exist.

Yet the Bible says God never changes. No telling what God is going to do or how He is going to do it. 

Some ideas fit. Some ideas don't. Like the guy who said you can't do Thaa.........oh I guess you can.

[Hopefully]

Hello,

can you give an example of a verse written to Jews that people think is written for them to take action on but is not?

[Paul James]

On 2/10/2021 at 5:49 PM, Riverwalker said:

Well that was an impressive post. But I have to disagree. The bible is God's Word for and directly to us.

 

God and His People....everything else is window dressing

Does this mean that you have the right as a witness, as the Old Testament says, to stone a false prophet to death?   Or as David, have several wives?   Just askin'....

[Riverwalker]

3 hours ago, Paul James said:

Does this mean that you have the right as a witness, as the Old Testament says, to stone a false prophet to death?   Or as David, have several wives?   Just askin'....

No we don't.  That was under the law, we are under grace. We can stop having interaction with the person, but that's all.

[Waggles]

2 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

We can stop having interaction with the person, but that's all.

Rats. 

That is the problem with Christianity you have to love other people and even pray for them.  no stonings! Humbug.

[Paul James]

Achan was the first person to smoke dope in the Bible.  He ended up getting stoned!

[Jim Sorrell]

I have been with Christ since I was 21. Now I am in my 70's. There are parts like Leviticus, Deuteronomy that are directed to setting up Israeli church activities. I don't have to concern myself with the various sacrifices since Christ was the final sacrifice. Numbers were tallies for Israel to remember. The genealogies were for the tribes of Israel to trace their ancestors for land ownership. The final entry was Christ. I am developing writing skills. Nehemiah shows me how to write a story from journals. Various sections such as "We went there, this happened, we met them, we did this" shows me others recorded from their notes. Stories in the bible speak to my needs and hopes. So, while not all parts apply to me in America, I learn from them. Dispensation is a great word, but I learned how to use topics energized by the Spirit to express stories to my readers in terms they can understand. There are no hidden "codes" in the bible; it's meant to be picked up and read.