THE ESSENCE OF JESUS MESSAGE

[Your closest friendnt]

13 minutes ago, Questioning said:

In today's terms, yes it was a cult that committed genocide.  

Hi Quest, in person I would love and explore s lot of things, but we cannot do this here.

What is the use to anger the spirits.

What propose will it serve? 

Those are things of the past.

The present generation is very charitable and has distance it self from all those things. 

And if you want to go by the scriptures there is a gap of a lot more than four generations since those things happen. 

And the sircumstances are very peculiar. 

Peculiar indeed. 

They did a lot of things under threat and compulsion. 

They did it, but are those who took part guilty under international law? 

Let's not talk any farther about those things as they are sensitive and are words could be misconstrued. 

[Questioning]

16 minutes ago, Questioning said:

In today's terms, yes it was a cult that committed genocide.  

In the last century Hitler tried to do the same thing to the Jews that the Israelites did when entering the promise land.  Hitler and his army were considered raging maniacs.  

[Your closest friendnt]

8 minutes ago, Questioning said:

In the last century Hitler tried to do the same thing to the Jews that the Israelites did when entering the promise land.  Hitler and his army were considered raging maniacs.  

I just said let's not talk about those things, because I do not agree with you, this is not a similar situation that was a crime out of proportion to them, and some of my relatives putting their lives in danger help some of them escape. 

They would never forgive them selves if they did not help them. 

And some also were punished for doing that.

It's not easy memories for me .

Please I do not want to talk about those things, hope you consider it, and understand me.

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Michael37]

40 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I just said let's not talk about those things, because I do not agree with you, this is not a similar situation that was a crime out of proportion to them, and some of my relatives putting their lives in danger help some of them escape. 

They would never forgive them selves if they did not help them. 

And some also were punished for doing that.

It's not easy memories for me .

Please I do not want to talk about those things, hope you consider it, and understand me.

 

The Bible and the Message of Jesus are about conflict as much as anything else. The conflict between the Will of God and the will of Satan involves mankind, as history bears record and Jesus warns.

Mat_24:6  And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that you be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mar_13:7  And when you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be you not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
Luk_21:9  But when you shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

[Questioning]

I am not meaning to focus on Hitler and the atrocities he committed.  I am sorry about that happening to your family.  I am saying that what Hitler did was what the Israelites did, claiming it was under God's orders.  Why was it so wrong for Hitler to do, yet it was okay for the children of God to do?  Did God change his mind at some point and say, "you should no longer do this".  

I happen to think that God did not change.  I think humans at times through the ages have used the excuse that God told them to do certain things.  And it got written down as God's holy word.  I no longer believe the bible is inerrant.  That is the point I am making.  People can cherry pick "scripture" to justify about anything, and that can be dangerous.   Doesn't it make sense that if God is love, he would not tell his people to wipe out entire societies?  That is not what Jesus taught.  

I am finishing up a study of the history of all religions and gods and there is something that seems to be at the core of most of them, and it corresponds with Jesus saying the greatest commandment is to love God and neighbor as self.  Basically the golden rule.  And to me reason and logic backs that up as being a valid rules to go by.  I am coming to the decision that not everything in the bible is "the word of God".

[Your closest friendnt]

8 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

The Bible and the Message of Jesus are about conflict as much as anything else. The conflict between the Will of God and the will of Satan involves mankind, as history bears record and Jesus warns.

Mat_24:6  And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that you be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mar_13:7  And when you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be you not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
Luk_21:9  But when you shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

Thank you for your reminder, I am not having any anxiety about those times.

I am like the disciples whom the Lord kept them out of these controversies. 

I had a brother who all the time was saying "Jesus is coming " keep repeating the same thing, his intent was to scared the believers to lead a repented life.

 I told him that at the beginning we are in Christ when we are first believe and as long as we believe.  So I told him make sure you die believing. 

Jesus Christ takes care of the rest. 

 

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, Questioning said:

I am not meaning to focus on Hitler and the atrocities he committed.  I am sorry about that happening to your family.  I am saying that what Hitler did was what the Israelites did, claiming it was under God's orders.  Why was it so wrong for Hitler to do, yet it was okay for the children of God to do?  Did God change his mind at some point and say, "you should no longer do this".  

First, I know you understand that we can ask this and sooooooo many more questions why God allowed this or why does God allow a Hitler or cancer, or any of the horrible atrocities that occurred over the past 6000 years.....heck, let's go back to the very beginning and ask Him why did He place that darn tree in the Garden - He could have prevented ALL of this from happening.  We don't know and will ONLY have the answer when we are with HIM. However, whether God has a specific plan in mind, which I am quite sure He does, no one should question Him or blame Him for anything man does or man does in the name of God........ God simply gave or gives us a choice ..... this has been the same option since Adam - nothing changed since then...... 

However, I certainly do not believe Hitler and the Israelite actions are NOT remotely the same..... there were millions of deaths during both events but they are worlds apart. And without taking this topic completely in another very long and different direction I will say that Hitler was a complete maniac who disobeyed every command of God...... he was Haman and Pharaoh combined times 1,000. He certainly received no orders from God but from Satan ----- here again is that same word "choice" -- he made his own choices and they were ALL against his God. The Israel force, however did receive their orders directly from God. Now you certainly know that even a small amount of leaven will corrupt the whole lump of dough.... Well, God instructed Joshua to destroy everything, leave NO corruption or leaven left when you enter the promise land (meaning  of course, that like in Heaven when we are resurrected, God will destroy ALL sin and sin will NEVER rise again in Heaven or anywhere else again). And as you know, Joshua did NOT keep His command 0n this and left some alive who would definitely find their way back into Israel's future and do so much damage and murder. 

Additionally, a reminder to why God wanted Joshua to destroy EVERYTHING -He even told us that the time of the gentiles is not yet fulfilled or ready..... for the past 400 years, they adopted the most wicked rituals, practices anyone could have put into practice. They obeyed and worshipped every god but God, they placed and sacrificed their own babies on the altar of some god and burned them alive.... they were 100 % corrupted and had been for long.....God instructed Joshua to rid the promised land of all of this.... necessary and very symbolic of the things to come.

So, I don't think they are similar at all, and I am sure you do not either. You are simply asking questions as we all are and need to understand and reconcile so much that has taken place...... and continues to this day.

 

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I happen to think that God did not change.  I think humans at times through the ages have used the excuse that God told them to do certain things.  And it got written down as God's holy word. 

So true ..... unfortunately! More people have been killed, murdered and tortured over the past 6000 years IN THE NAME OF GOD than any other reason..... some estimate that over 70 million pagans / gentiles / Christians were murdered and tortured by the RCC because they failed to accept their theology, rituals and practices. 

But does it really matter why or what reason people in power claim to kill, murder or torture? They could try and keep their integrity and righteousness by claiming "in the name of God" or they just might tell everyone they are killing because their dog told them to (remember son of sam). It just does not matter and God is NOT the culprit in these murders.... each individual makes the ch0ice (there that word is again)l

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I no longer believe the bible is inerrant.  That is the point I am making.  People can cherry pick "scripture" to justify about anything, and that can be dangerous.   Doesn't it make sense that if God is love, he would not tell his people to wipe out entire societies?  That is not what Jesus taught.  

I certainly understand your point.... so many people have walked away from the Bible because they believe they have found so many errors and inconsistencies. Or they don't like or agree with what God has indeed said or done in the Scriptures. Your example above reflects that..... but these difficulties, these seemingly errors and inconsistencies and events that we just can not seem to reconcile how a loving God could allow these things..... will indeed cause one of two things to happen:

 - one person that doesn't understand these things will either quickly claim this is not something I can believe in and it is just a man made book. It is filled with inconsistencies and ridiculous stories like speaking donkeys or Noah and the Ark or God made everything in 6 days when they believe in evolution and the earth being 13 billion years old and there are aliens, etc. They will quickly walk away.

 - another person may see these exact same "seemingly" inconsistencies, errors, etc.. and not walk away but is willing to spend more time trying to learn and understand if, how and why these verses or writing are from our God and Creator...... once again, it comes down to choice. During my career, I have found there are more people willing to take the easy road, not investigate an apparent discrepancy, unwilling to put the effort in to resolve a problem, don't worry or concern themselves with their work product, on and on..... If people  / most people are willing to do that with "easy" stuff, then we should not expect them to put in the work or have the interest in what clearly must be the most difficult assignment in the world..... reading and understanding the Word of God.  (not all Scripture has the same level of difficulty, but there are enough "difficult layers" within His Writings that will weed out or filter those that may not want to continue their effort or interest in understanding what does God mean by this.....

 

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I am finishing up a study of the history of all religions and gods and there is something that seems to be at the core of most of them, and it corresponds with Jesus saying the greatest commandment is to love God and neighbor as self.  Basically the golden rule.  And to me reason and logic backs that up as being a valid rules to go by.  I am coming to the decision that not everything in the bible is "the word of God".

NO, NO and once again please NO!  The Scriptures ARE INDEED HIS WORD AND ARE INERRANT. Once again, just because we may not completely understand much of the Scriptures, it does not mean there are errors..... God inspired the Scriptures and are thus HIS WORDS..... do you really expect to be able to understand the mind of God.... I certainly understand your point of view but this has also been anticipated and addressed by God..... please re-read JOB...... "where were you when I hung the worlds in their place....." we are not supposed to understand it all...... that is why He is God...... 

Keep searching, asking these questions, keep your obvious interest and effort.... your far from done here but please do NOT stop now...... to me, it is likened to those long conveyor belts where stones of all sizes around rolling over them as they move along the conveyor belt. The conveyor belt has holes in it... in the beginning of the process the smaller stones of a certain very small size will immediately fall through the holes, and the larger stones will continue on.... then the holes in the conveyor will be larger and where even larger stones will not fall through the holes, and so on and so on until the desired sized stones are the only ones remaining at the end of the process.  This is how I see many people..... they take a quick look into the Scriptures, and believe they are full of errors and allow themselves to fall through the largest hole..... don't have to deal with this process anymore and I have seen enough. Then there are other people who have a stronger interest and are willing to stay a little longer in the Scriptures... they also see the same "seemingly" errors but are willing to put the time and effort to see what is really going on here..but they too will decide enough is enough and allow themselves to fall through a hole just smaller than the earlier one.... this will continue and people will put the time and effort in trying to understand HIS WORD... until they don't and will also fall through the hole that symbolizes their time / effort has come to an end......

So, I respectfully ask that YOU stay to the end..... you will NOT find a better return on your investment....... the view is infinitely worth the climb.

Sorry for the preaching.... best wishe, Charlie

PS. There is only ONE God and He has given us HIS WORDS..... there are many people over the years that have tried to give us their gods ---- choice again.

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Charlie744
added missing word - not

[Waggles]

2 hours ago, Questioning said:

 Doesn't it make sense that if God is love, he would not tell his people to wipe out entire societies?

Genesis 6:1  When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, 
2  the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. 
3  Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” 
4  The Nephilim [giants] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. 
5  The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 

2Samuel 21:15  There was war again between the Philistines and Israel, and David went down together with his servants, and they fought against the Philistines. And David grew weary. 
2Sa 21:16  And Ishbi-benob, one of the descendants of the giants, whose spear weighed three hundred shekels of bronze, and who was armed with a new sword, thought to kill David. 
2Sa 21:17  But Abishai the son of Zeruiah came to his aid and attacked the Philistine and killed him. Then David's men swore to him, “You shall no longer go out with us to battle, lest you quench the lamp of Israel.” 
2Sa 21:18  After this there was again war with the Philistines at Gob. Then Sibbecai the Hushathite struck down Saph, who was one of the descendants of the giants. 
2Sa 21:19  And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite, struck down Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam. 
2Sa 21:20  And there was again war at Gath, where there was a man of great stature, who had six fingers on each hand, and six toes on each foot, twenty-four in number, and he also was descended from the giants. 
2Sa 21:21  And when he taunted Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimei, David's brother, struck him down. 

Deuteronomy 3:10  all the cities of the tableland and all Gilead and all Bashan, as far as Salecah and Edrei, cities of the kingdom of Og in Bashan. 
11  (For only Og the king of Bashan was left of the remnant of the Rephaim. Behold, his bed was a bed of iron. Is it not in Rabbah of the Ammonites? Nine cubits was its length, and four cubits its breadth, according to the common cubit.)

Rephaim - H7497   râphâ'    râphâh'
From H7495 in the sense of invigorating; a giant: - giant, Rapha, Rephaim (-s). See also H1051.
Total KJV occurrences: 21

Edited February 24, 2021 by Waggles

[Desopixi Seilynam]

"He that has my commands and keeps them, he it is that loves me.
Lord, how is it that you will reveal yourself to us Jews and not to the world?

And He answered and said: He that has my commands and keeps them,
he it is that loves me"  John 14:21-24
 

And He told them:

Go ye into all the world and teach all nations...
teaching them to observe whatsoever I have commanded you.  Matthew 28:19-20

-------

"This is my commandment, that you love one another" John 15:12

"Love your enemies, bless them that curse you". Matthew 5:44

And Paul and the others specifically reiterate His teachings,
and indeed give us good summarizing passages:

"Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor that which is evil cling to that which is good." Romans 12:9

"Bless them that persecute you; bless and curse not." Romans 12:14

"Love works no ill to his neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."
Romans 13:10

1 Corinthians 13   "If I have not love, I am nothing."

1 Corinthians 16:22 "If any man does not love the Lord Jesus Christ,
let that man be anathema, Oh Lord Come!"

"And they that belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts"
Galatians 5:22-24

"he that has my commands and keeps them, he it is that loves me"
John 14:21-24

"Hereby we do know that we know Christ, if we keep His commands"
1 John 2:3-4

"If any man preaches otherwise and consents not to wholesome words,
even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ and to the doctrine that is according
to godliness, he is proud knowing nothing" 1 Timothy 6:3-4

The words of Jesus that are the doctrine according to godliness,
are found here: Matthew 5 through 7:28, Luke 6:27-49.

"Blessed are they that do His commands, that they may have right
to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city"
Revelation 22:14
"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify these things to you in the Churches" Revelation 22:16
 

-------

Paul and the others are backing up and expounding on the teachings of Christ.

Ultimately it is all about sincere belief, those who sincerely believe that Christ died for them and rose from the dead, will therefore love Christ and sincerely live for Him, being more than willing to live by His teachings.

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Desopixi Seilynam

[Michael37]

11 hours ago, Questioning said:

 Doesn't it make sense that if God is love, he would not tell his people to wipe out entire societies? 

God's love is at times expressed in His Judgment of those who oppose Him.

You could argue that if God really loved everyone He wouldn't have punished Adam and Eve and prescribed such harsh conditions on His Creation. For those who accept God's Sovereign Judgment the various covenants* He has entered into with them are sufficient proof of His love for those who obey Him.

In Biblical Theology the enemies of Israel represent unregenerate humanity which is at all times subject to Divine Judgment, and for whom it doesn't end well in the final Judgment.

As the saying goes, "We ain't seen nothing yet." 

Gen 3:14-19  And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:  (15)  And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.  (16)  Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.  (17)  And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;  (18)  Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;  (19)  In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
 

*Biblical Covenant Theology