Protestant? Catholic? Confused...

[LearningToLetGo]

How do the various Protestant traditions reconcile Matthew 16:18-19 which appears to be a direct mandate from Jesus to Peter to establish the church?

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by LearningToLetGo
16:18-19

[Starise]

How do protestant traditions reconcile it?

Very well indeed.

[OneLight]

29 minutes ago, LearningToLetGo said:

How do the various Protestant traditions reconcile Matthew 16:18-19 which appears to be a direct mandate from Jesus to Peter to establish the church?

Let look at the whole conversation, shall we?

Matthew 16:13-20

¹³ When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”

¹⁴ So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

¹⁵ He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

¹⁶ Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

¹⁷ Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. ¹⁸ And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. ¹⁹ And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

²⁰ Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

Now, which part do you think Protestants have an issue with and why?

[LearningToLetGo]

5 minutes ago, OneLight said:

¹⁸ And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. ¹⁹ And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Jesus clearly charges Peter with a mandate to establish a church when He says "on this rock I will build My church." I suppose one could debate what the word "church" means, but regardless it falls on Peter to build something.

Jesus follows up with "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." This seems to not only reinforce what was written above but also clarify that Peter (and possibly the church by extension, although KJV uses the singular 'thee' instead of the plural 'you') has authority to speak for Jesus in his capacity as church builder.

Martin Luther clearly broke from the church. He must have addressed this in doing so. I'm curious to know how.

[Justin Adams]

52 minutes ago, LearningToLetGo said:

How do the various Protestant traditions reconcile Matthew 16:18-19 which appears to be a direct mandate from Jesus to Peter to establish the church?

 

He has poked the bad spirits in the eye with the transfiguration. He is saying this rock right here at the gates of hell is where I will plant my church. Then Yeshua tells them He is going to Jerusalem to die. He also says that the gates of hell will not prevail against His Church.

[LearningToLetGo]

2 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

He has poked the bad spirits in the eye with the transfiguration. He is saying this rock right here at the gates of hell is where I will plant my church.

Are you saying this is a double entendre, and although he is addressing his words to Peter he is actually speaking to the demons in Hell?

[OneLight]

5 minutes ago, LearningToLetGo said:

Jesus clearly charges Peter with a mandate to establish a church when He says "on this rock I will build My church." I suppose one could debate what the word "church" means, but regardless it falls on Peter to build something.

Jesus follows up with "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." This seems to not only reinforce what was written above but also clarify that Peter (and possibly the church by extension, although KJV uses the singular 'thee' instead of the plural 'you') has authority to speak for Jesus in his capacity as church builder.

Martin Luther clearly broke from the church. He must have addressed this in doing so. I'm curious to know how.

I noticed first and foremost that you ignore the whole conversation and focus on just two of the verses.  My question to you is, what is the "rock" that the church is to be built on? 

[LearningToLetGo]

1 minute ago, OneLight said:

what is the "rock" that the church is to be built on?

Peter is the rock. 

[Justin Adams]

20 minutes ago, LearningToLetGo said:

Are you saying this is a double entendre, and although he is addressing his words to Peter he is actually speaking to the demons in Hell?

Oh yes. He had just rebuked Peter, stirred up the fallen ones with His Transfiguration and in this area of Mt Hermon (Gen 6) He was directly confronting the principalities and powers and provoking them. Within 10 days or so He was dead. That area was considered the gateway to the underworld of which Satan is king. Caesarea Philippi was THE bad place. Grottos to Pan and Zeus and the general area of Bashan was known for being a very very bad place. Our Lord was not afraid to confront them and poke them. He expected them to kill Him. It was the plan. The apostle says, 'had they but known, they never would have killed the king of glory'. The fallen ones were outsmarted by the King of Kings.

From before creation, He knew what He was going to do and how He was going to do it. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Riverwalker]

18 minutes ago, LearningToLetGo said:

Peter is the rock. 

Thats a long way From Roman Catholicism

Put way the divisions and labels of Men.  God has no divisions, and asks no man to be the head. There is One Church and One Head, Jesus Christ

Ephesians 1:

 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.

22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Riverwalker