Futurism

[DeighAnn]

27 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

God bless you DeighAnn... and by the way, I believe folks have JUST found another cave with old writings THIS WEEK...

My opinion has and will always be that there is NO such thing as a coincidence --- NONE.... God has His Hand and Eyes on EVERYTHING ... 

I really do not believe there is that much time before His coming...... perhaps just after the March Madness.... hoping... Charlie

That would be awesome BUT one thing I keep in mind now a days, is the 'finding' of something they claim is of God, but it REALLY ISN'T of God.  I keep waiting for a discovery that 'turns Christians on their heads' with this 'new truth'.  The closer we get the more I expect it, keeping myself aware of such a thing,  so I don't let my foundation get shook.  

[Justin Adams]

Even after some of the earliest portions of what later became Scripture were committed to writing (perhaps in the eighth to seventh centuries B.C.E.), orality was still the primary means of transmitting the material that would eventually become the Hebrew Bible. In truth, the oral/aural tradition continued to be the dominant means by which most people encountered “Scripture” throughout the biblical period and beyond. Most people did not read the texts that would become parts of the Bible, but rather heard them. Literacy rates in the ancient Near East, including Israel, were extremely low—between 5 and 15 percent of the total population, with urban centers averaging higher percentages. And while the vast majority of literate individuals and scribes appear to have been men from the upper end of the socioeconomic and societal spectrum, texts recovered from ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt indicate that women—daughters of scribes or members of the royal entourage–occasionally also functioned as scribes.

Our best evidence for scribal activity in ancient Judaism, and its relation to the Hebrew Bible, comes from the witness of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Discovered beginning in 1947 and dating from approximately 250 B.C.E. to 68 C.E., the Dead Sea Scrolls from Qumran have yielded copies of every “biblical” book except Esther, and multiple copies and versions of certain books, such as Psalms, Deuteronomy, and Isaiah. Some 220 of the 980 scrolls recovered from the caves along the northwest shore of the Dead Sea are “biblical,” meaning they contain fragments of what would later become the Hebrew Bible. Although many of these manuscripts are nearly identical to the consonantal text that would become standard in later Judaism (the Masoretic Text), others diverge from that text in striking ways. (These are more similar to the Hebrew text from which the Septuagint, the early Greek Bible, was translated). While the scribes who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls were not “authors” in the modern sense, they were responsible for writing, copying, and editing. It is unclear how much freedom and autonomy scribes took on when transmitting a text, but they at least preserved others’ expansions, addressing silences in the texts, articulating new theological opinions, or combining rules that were located in different “biblical” books. Until the turn of the millennium, the scribes of the Dead Sea Scrolls and their related communities lived in an era in which they were free to innovate. There was, as yet, no finalized form of the Hebrew Bible.

The fact that scribes, editors, and copyists were not wedded to “authenticity,” or to the idea that word-for-word accuracy maintained the sacredness of a text, is clear in the innumerable variations in the early source materials that eventually became known as “the Bible.” This explains why the Hebrew text of Gen 1:2 states that “God ceased on the seventh day,” while the Septuagint and other ancient versions (the Samaritan and the Peshitta) reflect a text that says, “God ceased on the sixth day.” Similarly, the Masoretic Text of Exod 1:5 states that 70 descendants of Jacob came down to Egypt, while the Septuagint, two Dead Sea Scroll fragments, and some other witnesses offer the number 75. In most versions of Isa 6:2, the word “holy” is found three times, but the great Isaiah Scroll from Qumran translates it only twice: “Holy, holy is the LORD of hosts.” A careful comparison of the biblical text’s ancient attestations shows such “small” variations in virtually every verse, indicating that copyists through the late Second Temple period did not view themselves as Xerox machines or believe that they must reproduce texts exactly and precisely.

https://www.bibleodyssey.org/en/tools/bible-basics/how-did-scribes-and-the-scribal-tradition-shape-the-hebrew-bible

Edited March 24, 2021 by Justin Adams
added para

[DeighAnn]

33 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

God bless you DeighAnn... and by the way, I believe folks have JUST found another cave with old writings THIS WEEK...

My opinion has and will always be that there is NO such thing as a coincidence --- NONE.... God has His Hand and Eyes on EVERYTHING ... 

I really do not believe there is that much time before His coming...... perhaps just after the March Madness.... hoping... Charlie

I won't be going with you should it come to that.  

I WANT to stay.  I want to be tested.  I want to be delivered up.  I want to STAND up for the Lord.  I would love to be here with the two witnesses, to talk with and to listen to them KNOWING what they speak is TRUTH without any sense of 'is it really'.  

I am one who looks at what is coming as an opportunity to do something with all that has been given me.  I have enjoyed the WORD so much it is more real to me than this flesh is.  I think of the Lord willingly and FOR THE JOY and what was to come.  To suffer in this flesh, to be pressed upon by the adversary, KNOWING I was given power over all evil and GOD once again being PRESENT through the Holy Spirit speaking to the world is EXCITING to me.  I can take it for a while.  ETERNITY is a really long time and the only thing that follows us are our works.  CAN you imagine the multitude of sins that would cover.  NEVER again will such a time take place.  Never again will such a chance take place. 

Sorry, I get a little animated just thinking about it all. 

But can't you imagine being a vessel for the Holy Spirit to speak through. OHH..so close to God.  Wouldn't miss it if no matter how many years of '__________' (don't know what you call it) was promised.  No me.  No way.  Just sayin...
  

[DeighAnn]

37 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Although I must say that Benny Hinn, Jim Baker, Peter Popoff, Ken Copeland, John Hagee, David Jeremiah, Hal Lindsey, the RCC all seem to right on point.... Especially Jim Baker... I have recently purchased 42 million dollars of his end time groceries he sells on his TV show..... can not wait to open them and try them after the second coming... 

Charlie

Couldn't you have used just a bit of that on a new computer?  

[Starise]

1 minute ago, DeighAnn said:

Couldn't you have used just a bit of that on a new computer?  

Go ahead Charlie, I plan to be eating at the marriage supper of the Lamb. 

Bon Appétit !!!!!!!!!

[DeighAnn]

19 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Even after some of the earliest portions of what later became Scripture were committed to writing (perhaps in the eighth to seventh centuries B.C.E.), orality was still the primary means of transmitting the material that would eventually become the Hebrew Bible. In truth, the oral/aural tradition continued to be the dominant means by which most people encountered “Scripture” throughout the biblical period and beyond. Most people did not read the texts that would become parts of the Bible, but rather heard them. Literacy rates in the ancient Near East, including Israel, were extremely low—between 5 and 15 percent of the total population, with urban centers averaging higher percentages. And while the vast majority of literate individuals and scribes appear to have been men from the upper end of the socioeconomic and societal spectrum, texts recovered from ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt indicate that women—daughters of scribes or members of the royal entourage–occasionally also functioned as scribes.

Our best evidence for scribal activity in ancient Judaism, and its relation to the Hebrew Bible, comes from the witness of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Discovered beginning in 1947 and dating from approximately 250 B.C.E. to 68 C.E., the Dead Sea Scrolls from Qumran have yielded copies of every “biblical” book except Esther, and multiple copies and versions of certain books, such as Psalms, Deuteronomy, and Isaiah. Some 220 of the 980 scrolls recovered from the caves along the northwest shore of the Dead Sea are “biblical,” meaning they contain fragments of what would later become the Hebrew Bible. Although many of these manuscripts are nearly identical to the consonantal text that would become standard in later Judaism (the Masoretic Text), others diverge from that text in striking ways. (These are more similar to the Hebrew text from which the Septuagint, the early Greek Bible, was translated). While the scribes who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls were not “authors” in the modern sense, they were responsible for writing, copying, and editing. It is unclear how much freedom and autonomy scribes took on when transmitting a text, but they at least preserved others’ expansions, addressing silences in the texts, articulating new theological opinions, or combining rules that were located in different “biblical” books. Until the turn of the millennium, the scribes of the Dead Sea Scrolls and their related communities lived in an era in which they were free to innovate. There was, as yet, no finalized form of the Hebrew Bible.

https://www.bibleodyssey.org/en/tools/bible-basics/how-did-scribes-and-the-scribal-tradition-shape-the-hebrew-bible

Thank God, God is in control.  I believe the bibles in my hand today says exactly what God wants it to say, in the exact way God wants it said, no matter how it got here.  Maybe that is why He provided me with 3 different ones for everyday use.  Keeps me on my toes and SEEKING.  

Maybe that applies to everyone as God sees fit.  God knows.  

[DeighAnn]

5 minutes ago, Starise said:

9 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Couldn't you have used just a bit of that on a new computer?  

Go ahead Charlie, I plan to be eating at the marriage supper of the Lamb. 

Bon Appétit !!!!!!!!!

You lost me.  

[Justin Adams]

Just now, DeighAnn said:

Thank God, God is in control.  I believe the bibles in my hand today says exactly what God wants it to say, in the exact way God wants it said, no matter how it got here.  Maybe that is why He provided me with 3 different ones for everyday use.  Keeps me on my toes and SEEKING.  

Maybe that applies to everyone as God sees fit.  God knows.  

Providentially God's ideas of inspirations are a process and not a single event. If the scribes get a verse wrong, He sends another to put it right.

Remember that inspiration is an ongoing process. And God is always in control.

[Justin Adams]

You might try Logos.com. If you put it on your computer, you can reference it even with no internet. It is free and very good. Has interlinear and all kinds of functions.

[Charlie744]

1 minute ago, kingdombrat said:

Daniel shows us more on average within 12 Books than Books having 100 chapters.   We see Satan can hold up Angels like Gabrial, we see Yeshua in a fiery furnace, we see references to king Alexander and the Greco armies, we see the Antichrist coming out of Egypt/Syria conflict, we see restoration of Israel, we see what we read in Revelation's, we see [Daily Sacrifice] being ended and 2 set's of days equaling 7 year Tribulation.  We see the evil one having unnatural gods and offering ungodly offerings.   It's a prophetic filled adventure within the 12 Chapters of Daniel.

Oh no we don't .... Some of this, and only in my mind / opinion, are part of the gross misinterpretations previously mentioned...

Daniel is such a great book ... you are so right and this is why we must get it right... It reveals the restoration of the Jews but that is WITHIN the restoration OF ALL THINGS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. It reveals the coming Messiah, those who WILL go against God during the next 2,000 years and of course tells us the outcome in 12... we already know who wins....Further, the correct interpretations of Daniel will certainly be brought forward to our understanding of Revelation... and until this is done, and it has not yet been made clear or known by God, Revelation is nothing more than a terrible mess.....

1) We do see Alexander in the 3rd kingdom but even as great a general as he was, God gave him very little "ink" in Daniel.... for me, this is very purposeful... as great as man has honored his military genius and even his tactics are still taught in today's military academies, God makes sure we recognize he is just a man between two kingdoms and we are not to spend too much time on him... that the 4th kingdom is where the real "meat" happens!

2) I am going to ASSUME by your comments on the "Greco armies" you are referring to the 4 generals who were given each a territory of Alexander's kingdom after his death ... (right?).  Well, that is a major mistake and yet it is accepted by, once again, around 2.3 BILLION Christians around the world -- but what do they know? .  There is also very little spoken of in Daniel regarding these 4 generals or their desire for conquering / power / etc., in Daniel - now, here is even a more significant and truly just terrific misinterpretation (putting this in the form of a question to get my point across): Why in the world would God give Alexander, one of the WORLDS greatest military generals who conquered the then known world in what... a couple of days (), but will not devote almost 1/2 of a full and lengthy chapter AT THE END OF THE BOOK on a bunch of want -a- be's generals (and please forgive me here I just have to insert a Joe Biden reference), in chapter 11? Does anyone really believe God is using that kind of "ink" nearing the end of the book on these guys when the 4th kingdom is where EVERYTHING happens regarding His Plan of Restoration of the Jews and certainly MANKIND?  This has been interpreted to be nothing more than a "history lesson"...  where are commentators and expositors could not properly interpret 11 (so so difficult) and did what many of them know - history!  So, let's try and match  these verses to our history books.... Oh, we definitely know what happened after Alexander died... and the verses DO mention the 4 winds and ..... I think we got something here! NO!

Chapter 11 is all about His Plan of Salvation and those unbelievable events that take place within the 4th kingdom.... the 3rd kingdom has come and gone without much interest or "ink" given it by God.

3) Chapter 9 addresses the ceasing of the daily sacrifices by the death of the Messiah, it addresses the "7 year"period or the last week of Daniel's 70 weeks when all the "things" necessary for the full "restoration" of the Jews from Babylon will be completed.... 9:24 tells us those 6 "things" the Messiah Himself who will / could only arrive when all the  "physical things" were restored - vessels brought back, land restored, people brought back, building and the city rebuilt, the Temple restored.... If these "things" were not "restored" within the first 69 weeks of the 70 week prophecy, the Messiah would / could not have come.... but all of them were completed during the 69 weeks and on the very first day of the 70th week, the Messiah arrived exactly on time - 1st day of the last week in Daniel and was baptized by John  in the Jordan (coincidence?). Then, He would fulfill all 6 of the 9:24 requirements within His 3.5 year ministry and then.... He would be"cut off" (crucified), but not for Himself (our sins). in the "midst of the week" (1/2 of the last week in Daniel's 70th week).... again, these are just "COINCIDENCES"!

4) There are so many gross misinterpretations made in Daniel and this mythical AC figure, this 7 year future period in the end times, this "covenant" attributed to this mythical figure in the far future, etc., is all what not only allows us NOT to see the Messiah in Daniel chapters 9 through 11, but these same ridiculous interpretations are sent directly to Revelation and where we are awaiting this boogeyman .... 

Think about it.... don't you think God is writing about The Messiah and not some evil character some 2,000 years in the future?  God is not going to interrupt the wonderful prophetic message (s) within Daniel only to change direction near the end of the book (chapters 9 -11) and begin to use His prophetic ink on some AC figure .... This is all about the Messiah and God has 3 chapters left to reveal to us all the unbelievable events that will take place within this 4th kingdom and those characters identified in Daniel 7 & 8 (4th kingdom actors) that MUST stay in the world until His second coming....

5) One of the most important errors our "interpreters" have neglected to honor is found within chapter 2. God has given us the "template" or "rules" to follow with regard to interpreting the later chapters of Daniel.. but we have decided to stray quite far from HIS "template".

There are only 4 kingdoms ... not five as many might believe or thing they have found..... just 4. He has literally given us the first 3 by name and then we come to the 4th.... now He does not name this one for good reasons.... but it should be safe to say it BEGINS AS PAGAN ROME and continues on to this day in one form or name ..... It we look in Chapter 2, we also see a "Stone" cut without hands who will come and destroy this metal man image..... We have to stay within chapter 2 and where we learn"

     a) the 4th kingdom comes after the 3rd,

     b) it has certain physical characteristics that will be explained in more detail in 7 & 8,

     c) then the Stone comes and destroys everything and He sets up HIS KINGDOM.

If we move to chapters 7 & 8 we now see where God gives us more about this 4th kingdom -

                 1) it is a beast,

                 2) 10 horns arise from within this beast,

                 3) another "little horn" will also come out of this beast but is different than the other 10.....

That is it! These represent ALL the characters revealed to us by God... we can not add or subtract from His Words.... Period. Now, where do you see any mention of an AC character?  Some or many MAY believe this "little horn" is one and the same as their AC figure, but that can not be.... this guy is a guy and does not wait to come for some 2,000 years... AND, it  is clear to me this is none other than the "papacy".

So, where is this AC figure in chapter 2, 7 or 8? identified? He doesn't exist in Daniel... until chapter 9 where the RCC has indeed purposefully declared the "he" in Daniel 9 is some mythical AC figure and not the Messiah... and they know exactly who this represents but it is critical for them to provide an alternative interpretation around 1520's (see Justin's post from earlier), in order to remove the papacy from it being identified and labeled the "little horn" of Daniel (which they definitely are!!!!!!).

Well, that is enough from me.... sorry but that is how I understand Daniel and once again, who are you going to believe... me or the other 2.3 BILLION CHRISTIANS? 

Really?  Just my thoughts, Charlie