Futurism

[Justin Adams]

We have to be careful. There is typology in the Tanakh and perhaps elsewhere. It is a form of none verbal prophesy. But to get too liberal with it creates many problems.

If a preacher likens something to something else for illustration and to make a point in his sermon, it does NOT mean it is a type to be used everywhere by everyone.

To argue a 'dispensation' in this regard is misleading. I do not favor the dispensational ideas generally as they may lead to butchering scripture to suit a particular home-grown narrative.

And so we are back again in full circle to the reason the futurist  dispensations were formed in the first place. Distractions and misdirection from the real culprits.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Guest kingdombrat]

10 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

I find no biblical evidence that the 7 churches are anything more than the seven types of churches there can be. I see no time corollary at all in the scripture

For each Church Yeshua describes the things He loved and He hated.   There's a spiritual attachment to what He's stating here.   Ironically, it just happens that you can see these same spiritual attachments working and then after a period time gave way to the next spiritual attachment.   And the attachments are connected in what Yeshua hated. And how each attachment came into play on a worldwide scheme, then would end and another spiritual attachment seemed to rise up just also happened to follow same order as the Churches in the order Yeshua speaks about them.   After enough observation of these spiritual attachments embedded towards Believers and the surrounding world, we've been able to classify them as Dispensations.   And since the other 6 Spiritual Attachments Yeshua mentions that He applied to the Churches have been observed as fulfilled, that puts us into Laodecia.

Edited April 13, 2021 by kingdombrat

[David1701]

17 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Just a comment on this part
IF
God told them that if they obeyed they would be blessed and if they didn't they would lose their land and be scattered for 2520 years, and then they didn't and so they ended up losing their land and going into captivity and didn't become a nation again until those years had come to pass?  Let's say that as with the tribe of Judah that there were nations of the world come into existence exactly the same amount of time from when they were first taken captive, would that also be prophecy fulfilled even if it wasn't in the original land?  (maybe even fall under a land not known but would be protected by God)

If only the whole world, meaning all religions, looked to him as 'the one', then we would have something going on.  Then we could believe the pope was fulfilling that prophecy.  But since it is only one religion, it doesn't fit. 

Oh, but it's not only one religion.  Roman Catholicism is a hideous admixture of paganism, of various kinds, and the outward appearance of Christianity. 

The Pope claims to be the head of all religions in the world (he sometimes calls their adherents Christians!) and the One to whom they must all submit.  Have you seen the many pictures of religious leaders bowing down to him and kissing his ring in obeisance?

[Guest kingdombrat]

10 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

You have a good post, the question marks are for the readers to keep asking questions to our selves.

Thank You Sir!

[Your closest friendnt]

Just now, kingdombrat said:

Thank You Sir!

And Thank you too.

It is Tim, no Sir for me. 

God bless 

[David1701]

8 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

I was Just saying.  Wasn't at all trying to diminish the seriousness of the dangers of Catholicism...just pointing to the root cause.  We're not wrestling with flesh & blood but with powers and principalities that work through the flesh.

Paul said to the born again believing church that after he departed wolves would come in, not sparing the flock (he was the one restraining them at the time).   And it still goes on, to one degree or another, making merchandise of the lambs, wolves feeding their flesh (ambition, power, prestige, or money) but the people love to have it so.  That is the antichrist spirit that we all need to overcome in ourselves and grow out of.......in our flesh, whether we are a wolf exploiting the flock to whatever degree, or a lamb who loves to have a flesh&blood "king" in the place of our invisible Head....until the wolf and the lamb are both at rest in the Lord.

I would not call the flesh of born again Christians an "antichrist spirit"!

Wording aside, I agree with the sentiments.

[Charlie744]

22 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Oh, but it's not only one religion.  Roman Catholicism is a hideous admixture of paganism, of various kinds, and the outward appearance of Christianity. 

The Pope claims to be the head of all religions in the world (he sometimes calls their adherents Christians!) and the One to whom they must all submit.  Have you seen the many pictures of religious leaders bowing down to him and kissing his ring in obeisance?

He certainly is the “little horn” of Daniel and has been doing exactly what Daniel has told us he would do... (by the way, David, this includes the changing of the Sabbath).

Charlie

[David1701]

2 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

He certainly is the “little horn” of Daniel and has been doing exactly what Daniel has told us he would do... (by the way, David, this includes the changing of the Sabbath).

Charlie

Yes, I agree.

[Riverwalker]

36 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

For each Church Yeshua describes the things He loved and He hated.   There's a spiritual attachment to what He's stating here.   Ironically, it just happens that you can see these same spiritual attachments working and then after a period time gave way to the next spiritual attachment.   And the attachments are connected in what Yeshua hated. And how each attachment came into play on a worldwide scheme, then would end and another spiritual attachment seemed to rise up just also happened to follow same order as the Churches in the order Yeshua speaks about them.   After enough observation of these spiritual attachments embedded towards Believers and the surrounding world, we've been able to classify them as Dispensations.   And since the other 6 Spiritual Attachments Yeshua mentions that He applied to the Churches have been observed as fulfilled, that puts us into Laodecia.

You have made no scriptural attachment to a time frame

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, David1701 said:

And your SCRIPTURAL evidence for this is?  (Hint: there is none)

David, that does not seem fair! We can have a verse pulled right out of almost any book, show it to 100 people and get at least 50 different interpretations. And anyone can then walk by and ask the same question “Scripture for that”?

You have provided at least 10 verses to me on keeping the Sabbath, @WailingWall has provided the same for the other side of the discussion- BOTH provided Scripture!!!! 

I have seen so many folks in this forum use that question to throw a bucket full of water on a fire... it “can” and usually destroys any further dialogue between the two... and they BOTH may be considering the same verse!

Now, in this case you very strongly state / imply / request for Scripture supporting the “spiritual” application of the 7 churches in Revelation... THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE to provide! 

Is or was Joseph (son of Jacob) a type of Christ? Was Isaac a type of Jesus (sacrifice)? If we did not have the actual events behind us to recognize / be made aware of would we think those two were “types”? Did Paul recognize them? Even after the Cross Paul did not see the application to Isaac (he would have no problem asking for “Scripture” please).

Well, for me, I definitely see the literal 7 churches !!! Let me ask you something- when did those literal churches live ... what time on this planet do we find they took place?  Were they ALL in existence around the same time?  Was John speaking about these 7 churches that were in existence AT THE TIME HE WROTE REVELATION? If it is a literal meaning than I guess it would have to!!! 

God would then have taken John and revealed to him the 7 churches - ALL found in Asia Minor (only) and revealed to him the specific characteristics JUST for those 7 churches in JUST that one location within the known world. REALLY?

So the Book of REVELATION is to reveal to us those things that are relevant to the 1st century / very specific small communities in Asia Minor?

And there are so many that will feel comfortable asking in no uncertain terms “Got Scripture for that”? 

This is not going to mean one thing to you or perhaps anyone else... I just started studying Daniel (July, 2019) because I was instructed to before I attempted Revelation. I have NOT started studying Revelation but obviously read it a few times! I have found how corrupted, misunderstood, misinterpreted the Book of Daniel is ... and it all comes down to interpretation- NOT Scripture- we all have the same 12 chapters. 

I have read / thought enough about these 7 churches in Revelation and they are 100% literal churches during John’s time but they are being used by God to reveal the 7 different characteristics or means where / how mankind fails to obey God. Only God could put something like this together! Seven literal churches in the 1st century that would all soon be forgotten or become no longer relevant in the “big picture” of things and God is taking John up to reveal this to him... and it is to have no spiritual application to his growing church for the next 2,000 years before HIS second coming is ........incredulous! God has taken these 7 literal churches in the 1st century and is able / willing to identify each characteristic of each of the 7 to a specific period of time in the development of HIS church for our benefit- to do exactly what HE had done hundreds of times with the Israelites - to show them what will take place - to warn them what path not to take - to tell them the consequences of taking making the wrong choice- and in Revelation, HE is also telling each church what they must do to correct their situation and then God also tells them what HE will do for them! 

The best you can do for someone who is trying to unpack the most prophetic and difficult book in the Bible is to insist they provide you with “Scripture”? 

David, I am sorry but I am so upset right now... Take your little water bucket away and don’t use it on anyone else’s fire.... 

You can share your views and knowledge and love for HIS WORD but leave the prophecies and creative writing to God... I bet we don’t see 99% of the treasures in the Scriptures that HE has embedded in them... 

Just my thoughts, Charlie