Making a Habit of Arguing/Debating Scripture

[enoob57]

3 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

If you do not read at least second temple Jewish literature, you will not have a clue about how the apostles and Yeshua repurpose it. So then we have an ill informed church that has lost its ability to reason and think well.

I believe all material, except that of Scripture itself, is suspect of truth and certainly do not believe Scripture is dependent upon external writings to be understood! There exist only God's declaration of what we can rely on as truth:
John 17:17

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
KJV
This the Son's statement and request right before His death experience and I give it the full weight that it 'IS'....

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, kingdombrat said:

When all along, it's not even a requirement!

As Jesus was ready to ascend to The Father He said this:

Matt 28:19-20

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
KJV
This was the last command Jesus gave to His Disciples...

[Starise]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

I am convinced that what matters more to the Lord, while we debate scripture, is our hearts and how we relate to our brethren. It is possible to be right and yet be wrong. It is equally possible to be wrong and also right.

This is well said. It can also be difficult to admit when we are found to be wrong. Some will continue to support an ever eroding argument. I would hope I can admit it when I know I found out I was incorrect. Even worse is the person convinced to the grave they are right when they aren't. The go around convincing everyone else to be wrong  as well 

More importantly the manner in which something is delivered means everything because if I tuned a person out because they were a jerk, I stopped listening to them.

Opinions about certain unexplained passages should not be disputed. Why would they be?

1 hour ago, leah777 said:

They are like fans who write supplemental books and articles  (to use an example of a genre, no insult is intended)

.They may mention parts of the original novel, they may have the same or similar characters, but they are merely human non-inspired additions of human thoughts and experiences around the original.

I do not mean made up or untrue, I mean the sort of additional things others write, their own experiences, but not written by the original author.

I hope you understand my meaning.

Some writings are expressly from others about the Bible. Other writings are more like 'snapshots' of time to help us better understand what was happening during certain times or the ways that cultures or individuals might have reasoned or seen certain things differently from us. Not intentionally written about the Bible, yet very relevant so far as insight into it is concerned. 

[Alive]

2 hours ago, leah777 said:

They are like fans who write supplemental books and articles  (to use an example of a genre, no insult is intended)

.They may mention parts of the original novel, they may have the same or similar characters, but they are merely human non-inspired additions of human thoughts and experiences around the original.

I do not mean made up or untrue, I mean the sort of additional things others write, their own experiences, but not written by the original author.

I hope you understand my meaning.

 

It is far easier to perceive what a person is communicating when we understand how and why that person got to where they are and why--what influenced them. These things, in human terms, inevitably and most certainly affect what and how we communicate. The writers of the scriptures were not automatons. They were human men and they were informed by many varied sources---ie. read material and culture.

It is very helpful to have knowledge of the world they lived in.

A good example is Jesus Himself. He was a Jew and He grew up in and lived as a Jew speaking to other Jews. That Jewery is evident in everything He said. He was in a culture speaking to folks in that culture. It is impossible to understand Jesus without understanding where He was and who He was speaking to.

Do you see what I mean?

 

[Guest kingdombrat]

30 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

As Jesus was ready to ascend to The Father He said this:

Matt 28:19-20

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
KJV
This was the last command Jesus gave to His Disciples...

But there is a viable argument which the Apostle John taught to his own disciples Polycarp and Papias about the true original Gospel of Matthew was written in Hebrew, not the Greek.   And in the Hebrew there are no such Commands from Christ made.   Even Jerome, who claims to have both held the Matthew Hebrew Gospel and translated it into Latin in his other writings, explains when the Hebrew Matthew was translated into Greek, errors and probable additions were made.   

 

I just know what history claims.   But it is much of why if water Baptism was an actual requirement, Christ would have made sure the thief was baptized.

Edited April 7, 2021 by kingdombrat

[missmuffet]

There is only one true Word of the Bible. When I see a false interpretation and false teaching I ignore it or tell the writer I do not support their interpretation and give them the literal true meaning of the word. 

[Guest kingdombrat]

25 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

I just know what history claims.   But it is much of why if water Baptism was an actual requirement, Christ would have made sure the thief was baptized.

Look at it from this viewpoint.  Nowhere do we find a Command given unto us by Christ Himself do we not see Him fulfilling it Himself.   Nowhere do we see Christ water Baptizing anyone.   He most certainly did not stop dying to baptize the Thief but confirmed his reservation in Paradise this very [same day].   And then to think Yeshua would [Command] His own Disciples to do something He [NEVER] did goes against every other example where Christ Commands and we can also see Him doing what He Commands.

[Guest kingdombrat]

I most absolutely believe in being Baptized!

But I don't believe Jesus would Command us to do something He never did Himself!

[Marathoner]

8 minutes ago, Alive said:

It is far easier to perceive what a person is communicating when we understand how and why that person got to where they are and why--what influenced them. These things, in human terms, inevitably and most certainly affect what and how we communicate. The writers of the scriptures were not automatons. They were human men and they were informed by many varied sources---ie. read material and culture.

It is very helpful to have knowledge of the world they lived in.

A good example is Jesus Himself. He was a Jew and He grew up in and lived as a Jew speaking to other Jews. That Jewery is evident in everything He said. He was in a culture speaking to folks in that culture. It is impossible to understand Jesus without understanding where He was and who He was speaking to.

Do you see what I mean?

 

Indeed, and the same applies to us here and now. Our experience with the Lord is revealed in how we communicate with others, whether they are brethren or our unbelieving neighbor. This is where "be slow to speak and quick to listen" (James 1:19) serves us well. 

That crucible of experience is where the Lord refines us, tries us, and sends us forth. Thus the same Lord Jesus Christ, who is the same yesterday, today, and forever reveals Himself to each of us in different ways. Jude writes of this salvation we share in common and this is our unity in Christ Jesus, but what proves to be a challenge to grasp is the many-membered Body of which we are a part. 

It pleases the Lord that each of us are parts of the whole. 

I believe it is fruitful to touch upon our own testimony from time to time so the brethren might come to understand some of that crucible where the Spirit of God refines us like silver is refined. I've been called a "Calvinist" on a number of occasions by virtue of how the Lord came and revealed Himself to me, declaring my election and claiming me as His own. Truth be told, I didn't pay attention to John Calvin nor his teachings, all of which were a mystery until that moniker spurred me to research the man. 

And so I will say, "John Calvin didn't come to pluck me from this world and keep me in his hand." I didn't know who John Calvin was until years after the Lord saved me from this world and myself. Is this a vindication of Calvinism? Absolutely not, though there are some who will likely view it that way. I understand if this is the case... it's out of my hands. I can only speak and write from the crucible of testimony and experience. 

The same applies to us all. It's good to keep this in mind.  

[Guest kingdombrat]

3 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

And so I will say, "John Calvin didn't come to pluck me from this world and keep me in his hand." I didn't know who John Calvin was until years after the Lord saved me from this world and myself. Is this a vindication of Calvinism? Absolutely not, though there are some who will likely view it that way. I understand if this is the case... it's out of my hands. I can only speak and write from the crucible of testimony and experience. 

The same applies to us all. It's good to keep this in mind.  

Amen!

 

I was thinking how much their [Arm vs Calvin] own viewpoints have literally dictated several entire Organizations of Protestants?

 

Just incredible the influence 2 human men had on so many!