Making a Habit of Arguing/Debating Scripture

[Guest kingdombrat]

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

The argument would be moot if one just read the NT ... 
{snip}

BAPTISM 

As administered by John. Matt 3:5-12; John 3:23; Acts 13:24; 19:4. 

Sanctioned in Christ’s submission to it. Matt 3:13-15; Luke 3:21.

Adopted by Christ. John 3:22; 4:1-2.

Appointed an ordinance of the Christian Church. Matt 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-16. 

To be administered in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Matt 28:19. 

Water, the outward and visible sign in. Acts 8:36; Acts 10:47. 

Regeneration, the inward and spiritual grace of. John 3:3,5-6; Rom 6:3,4,11. 

Remission of sins, signified by. Acts 2:38; 22:16. 

Unity of the Church effected by. 1 Cor 12:13; Gal 3:27-28. 

Confession of sin necessary to. Matt 3:6. 

Repentance necessary to. Acts 2:38. 

Faith necessary to. Acts 8:37; 18:8.

There is only one. Eph 4:5. 

Administered to 

Individuals. Acts 8:38; 9:18. 

Households. Acts 16:15; 1 Cor 1:16. 

An emblem of the influence of the Holy Spirit. Matt 3:11; Titus 3:5. 

Typified. 1 Cor 10:2; 1 Peter 3:20-21. 

 
(from The New Thematic Concordance, Copyright © Geoffrey Stonier 2004. All rights reserved.)
{snip}

100% Legalism!

[Guest kingdombrat]

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

The argument would be moot if one just read the NT ... 
{snip}

BAPTISM 

As administered by John. Matt 3:5-12; John 3:23; Acts 13:24; 19:4. 

Sanctioned in Christ’s submission to it. Matt 3:13-15; Luke 3:21.

Adopted by Christ. John 3:22; 4:1-2.

Appointed an ordinance of the Christian Church. Matt 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-16. 

To be administered in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Matt 28:19. 

Water, the outward and visible sign in. Acts 8:36; Acts 10:47. 

Regeneration, the inward and spiritual grace of. John 3:3,5-6; Rom 6:3,4,11. 

Remission of sins, signified by. Acts 2:38; 22:16. 

Unity of the Church effected by. 1 Cor 12:13; Gal 3:27-28. 

Confession of sin necessary to. Matt 3:6. 

Repentance necessary to. Acts 2:38. 

Faith necessary to. Acts 8:37; 18:8.

There is only one. Eph 4:5. 

Administered to 

Individuals. Acts 8:38; 9:18. 

Households. Acts 16:15; 1 Cor 1:16. 

An emblem of the influence of the Holy Spirit. Matt 3:11; Titus 3:5. 

Typified. 1 Cor 10:2; 1 Peter 3:20-21. 

 
(from The New Thematic Concordance, Copyright © Geoffrey Stonier 2004. All rights reserved.)
{snip}

You are claiming that Jesus is willing to be our 100% example.   His example he never Baptized or ordered anyone to be.   He did not Baptize the Thief.   But I am to believe all of the things He did not do He turned around and commanded His Disciples to do?   Twisted!

[Guest kingdombrat]

1 hour ago, Marathoner said:

My friend, this isn't a topic where such a matter is appropriate to discuss at length. The topic pertains to arguing/debating scripture, not themes of science and faith. A cursory treatment is fine within the limits of courtesy; if my brief summation of science as the pursuit of man examining the Lord's creation isn't sufficient for you, then what can I say?

That's out of my hands. I lack a "Scientific Platform" and I'm not interested in discussing anything in this vein, thanks.  

No, it was the example of what i believe this [Thread] is all about, where interesting ideas are being meshed with Scripture.   And it leads to debate and basically tearing down one's argument by belittling responses.   And I absolutely respect your position holding a knowledge that others wish to challenge.   It must be tiring.

[DeighAnn]

On 4/6/2021 at 3:59 PM, Hopefully said:

Is this Godly? Especially on a daily/weekly basis and for years? I lasted about 3 months but my spirit does not allow me to continue. God wants us to worship him not the Bible.
 

“Keep on telling everyone these truths. And warn them before God not to argue about words. Such arguments don’t help anyone, and they ruin those who listen to them.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:14‬ 

Commentary

Having thus encouraged Timothy to suffer, he comes in the next place to direct him in his work.

“I. He must make it his business to edify those who were under his charge, to put them in remembrance of those things which they did already know; for this is the work of ministers; not to tell people that which they never knew before, but to put them in mind of that which they do know, charging them that they strive not about words. 
Observe, Those that are disposed to strive commonly strive about matters of very small moment. Strifes of words are very destructive to the things of God. That they strive not about words to no profit. If people did but consider of what little use most of the controversies in religion are, they would not be so zealous in their strifes of words, to the subverting of the hearers, to the drawing of them away from the great things of God, and occasioning unchristian heats and animosities, by which truth is often in danger of being lost. Observe, People are very prone to strive about words, and such strifes never answer any other ends than to shake some and subvert others; they are not only useless, but they are very hurtful, and therefore ministers are to charge the people that they do not strive about words, and they are most likely to be regarded when they charge them before the Lord, that is, in his name and from his word; when they produce their warrant for what they say.—Study to show thyself approved unto God,”

https://www.christianity.com/bible/commentary.php?com=mh&b=55&c=2
 

“Yikes, theology, what’s that? Allegedly, it’s all about interpreting the Bible to present a clear picture of God and his dealings with people. So what is a theologian then? 

 They’re the ones who try to do the interpreting. Their super-hero challenge is to accurately interpret Bible verses that aren’t clear and thus are open to different interpretations. Unfortunately, throughout Christian history, some theologians have interpreted the Bible to mean what they want it to mean. 

 And then they start arguing about the Bible, sometimes causing real damage within the church. But theology poses a bigger problem than just stirring up people. The purpose of the Bible isn’t to interpret it, but to guide our lives. 

 Anyone with plain common sense and a little experience in life can use the Bible for spiritual growth and guidance. We don’t need to be a theologian, but occasionally we do have to clear off the fog theologians leave on our spiritual windshield.

 So why didn’t God see to it that everything in the Bible is crystal clear? Because he wants us to exercise our faith more than our intellect. Because he wants us to follow his son, Jesus, not a book of black and white rules and regulations, one size fits all. The Jews already tried that, and it didn’t work out so well. God wants us to worship him, not the Bible.”

http://business.baylor.edu/Phil_vanauken/PersonalMinistry/Theological pretzels.docx

 

And the Word was God.  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.  

For me, personally, this isn't the place for the all the peace love and bobby sherman (only the old will know what that means)  it is about finding and teaching the TRUTH of Gods Word.  AND I believe Satan has had a free hand for many many years keeping 'the letter' of the Word more important than the Spirit of it in Gods Plan 

Not to mention 
we are WARNED and given instruction to warn. 

It is hard and scary sometimes but confrontations really test the foundation and the knowledge and for me at least, I study harder with a lot more attention to the details I would have just read over.

It is work.  It is hard.  AND 

It is commanded.  And remember this?  

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division

I BELIEVE we are in some very special times with the 2520 year old prophecy having been fulfilled in our lifetime alone.  

 

Ezekiel 3:17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.

Ezekiel 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Ezekiel 3:19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Ezekiel 3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Ezekiel 3:21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

 

 

Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Ezekiel 33:7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

 

Ezekiel 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.

Ezekiel 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

Ezekiel 33:14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;

 

John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


I chopped out as much as I could stand.  I hope it was enough and not too much.  But anyway that is my 2 cents.  

[Hopefully]

36 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I chopped out as much as I could stand.  I hope it was enough and not too much.  But anyway that is my 2 cents.  

I get what you are saying and agree with it but as for this platform is it productive? 
 

The same people have been arguing with each other for years as if nobody has changed anybody’s mind. 
 

I see more disagreement than agreements and it hinders people from speaking the truth just to avoid the arguments. You almost can’t say what your favorite color is without someone disagreeing. 
 

When I see a post I agree with I support it. When I see one I don’t agree with I may throw a verse in to see if it sheds light- and usually it does not- but all the back and forth bickering is really useless. 
 

God will have his people no matter what. We may see people in a current state of confusion but that doesn’t mean they will stay that way. Even we were once lost and confused. 
 

I am just glad I learned from the Bible and Gods spirit and not a place were people bicker constantly. I am thankful I had read alot of the Bible in the spirit before coming here. 
 

Woe to the new in Christ trying to learn in this place. They will be pulled to and fro according to the most convincing penmanship and or the post with most support which does not mean it’s correct. 
 

To the new in Christ I say get out of here and come back when God has settled you and you are sure what you believe no matter what anybody else says.

[Guest clancy]

On 4/7/2021 at 12:45 AM, walla299 said:

I don't bother arguing points of scripture that are non-salvational. Period. It only leads to more division. The Lord put a stop to me arguing needlessly years ago, and now I'm old enough that I understand some of why that's important. It's still a work in progress. Someone saying Christ is not God? That's worth arguing - but in a certain way. I think it was Spurgeon that said it, possibly someone else, but "The word of God is a lion and will defend itself. Just let it out of the cage." ( or words to that effect.) I've seen the Lord change many people's minds after showing them something in scripture and then letting the Holy Spirit do what He does best. Only God can change a heart - and that will change the mind!

That's my take on it, anyway.

This is an excellent post.....AMEN,!!!

[Aries2020]

Greetings,

I suppose when you look at the example of Jesus, he was the one that could easily admonish correct or debate people and he did at certain times to warn his disciples and people of religious hypocrisy.

But after following Jesus for years and witnessing his teachings and miracles, what did his disciples learn and what did they say.

Who is the greatest among us?

The disciples wanted to claim the credit and recognition, that is attributed to God and honour and glorify themselves.

Jesus said if you want to be great or effective in the kingdom of God, you have to make the most sacrifices, serve the needs of others, except all criticism and never retaliate, and put everyone’s interests above your own etc.

Jesus said you do this and be least in the kingdom of God, and you will become a worthy vessel that God can use to glorify my name.

Arguments and debates distract believers, from their true calling.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul mind and strength, and love your neighbour in every aspect that Jesus taught his followers.

Then one day you may hear the words that your very existence depends on, enter thou in to the joy of the Lord thou good and faithful servant.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Aries2020

[Guest clancy]

32 minutes ago, Aries2020 said:

Greetings,

I suppose when you look at the example of Jesus, he was the one that could easily admonish correct or debate people and he did at certain times to warn his disciples and people of religious hypocrisy.

But after following Jesus for years and witnessing his teachings and miracles, what did his disciples learn and what did they say.

Who is the greatest among us?

The disciples wanted to claim the credit and recognition, that is attributed to God and honour and glorify themselves.

Jesus said if you want to be the great or effective in the kingdom of God, you have to make the most sacrifices, serve the needs of others, except all criticism and never retaliate, put everyone’s interests above your own, love and accept everyone that likes or hates you etc.

Jesus said you do this and be least in the kingdom of God, you will be a worthy vessel that God can use to glorify my name.

Arguments and debates distract believers, from their true calling.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul mind and strength, and love your neighbour in every aspect that Jesus taught his followers to do.

Another wise post....it was the accepting of others that I found hard..as in being rude,bitter,toxic etc....once I handed it over to the Holy Spirit ,everything changed.....it’s when I take on “ self” that’s when my problems arise.....I must look to the Holy Spirit for change.....not “ myself”......in Jesus Name, Amen!

 

The Lord is showing me so much at the moment, words can’t express my coming alive in Him.....I need Him more than anyone or anything.....

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by clancy

[Aries2020]

39 minutes ago, clancy said:

Another wise post....it was the accepting of others that I found hard..as in being rude,bitter,toxic etc....once I handed it over to the Holy Spirit ,everything changed.....it’s when I take on “ self” that’s when my problems arise.....I must look to the Holy Spirit for change.....not “ myself”......in Jesus Name, Amen!

 

The Lord is showing me so much at the moment, words can’t express my coming alive in Him.....I need Him more than anyone or anything.....

 

amen me too.

[Not me]

I would put forth the thought that scripture itself teaches us to look away from itself to another to have life, with the words;

John 5:39 (NKJV)
“You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.”

It is one thing to know the written word and another thing to know the Author of those words... For Scripture itself points us away from itself to know the Author, I believe this is what @Hopefully is putting forth in the OP that she is being taught inwardly the difference between the two.. If I understand what is being put forth in the OP correctly.... 

Which once learned is then being a doer of the word and not just a hearer and talker of them...  Which in itself is a great step closer to Christ, as then learning to listen to that still small voice of the peace of Christ in the heart and the being obedient to it... Then self is being put to death and one’s relationship with Christ grows to put a joy in the heart no outward struggle can put a dent in ...

(my thoughts on the OP) 

Hope they are found helpful and bless whoever might read...

A fellow follower of His, Not me 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Not me