BeyondET Posted April 23, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,868 Content Per Day: 1.22 Reputation: 816 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/1968 Share Posted April 23, 2021 On 4/17/2021 at 8:36 AM, JohnR7 said: The earth was covered with ice for 200 million years. Jeremiah 4:23 "I looked at the earth, and it was formless and empty; and at the heavens, and their light was gone." Genesis 1:2 "Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters". this is mixing the two, Jeremiah says and their light was gone, there was lights before they where gone in the beginning there was lights created. Jeremiah is speaking of something that caused the lights to disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnR7 Posted April 25, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,907 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 614 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/03/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/06/1952 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) On 4/22/2021 at 10:36 PM, BeyondET said: this is mixing the two, Jeremiah says and their light was gone, there was lights before they where gone in the beginning there was lights created. Jeremiah is speaking of something that caused the lights to disappear. I am not mixing anything. I am just pointing out that the words are exactly the same. One could be an archetype of the other. This does not have to be the same event. I believe all of the Bible is real and has an impact on each and every individual. Edited April 26, 2021 by JohnR7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shua3000 Posted July 7, 2021 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 14 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/02/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/12/1986 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 I guess I'm asking because why would God kick Satan out of heaven if Satan had nowhere to go but earth. Did the act of God kicking Satan out of heaven tempt Eve? Why would God send us such opposition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK1110 Posted July 7, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 6,873 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 9,611 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/18/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/10/1986 Share Posted July 7, 2021 I think it's reasonable to assume that there would have been a fall anyway. Satan's temptation may have been the catalyst at the time, but eventually there would have been sin, no? After all, if sin is only the result of external temptation, then who tempted Satan to sin? You might be interested in the work of Dr. Hugh Ross. He (not just him, but he's one person I've read) argues that God is using this universe and it's properties to eradicate sin once and for all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted July 7, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,129 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,857 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted July 7, 2021 2 hours ago, BK1110 said: I think it's reasonable to assume that there would have been a fall anyway. Humans are going to judge angels...... humans were not created qualified to do that..... God intended for Eve and Adam to do what they did so that Satan himself would be responsible for giving humans the ability to judge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 7, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,189 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 7, 2021 On 4/12/2021 at 8:35 PM, Starise said: Here is one view- When God made the earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th He said it was all good. The angelic fall must have happened after that time. Before this creation on earth was all 'good'. The rebellion happened in heaven not on earth. When Satan was kicked from heaven to earth sin entered earth's domain and has been at work here ever since. Satan that beautiful angel was in the garden and was responsible for helping Adam and Eve to fall. The above view on WHEN Satan fell from heaven assumes a few things. Simply because God's earthly creation was all good in 6 days does not necessarily have a bearing on what went down in heaven. Angelic creation preceded earthly creation. The fallen angelic host might not have been expressly included in the "all was good" idea. God was referring to his 6 day creation on earth. I won't argue the point with anyone, but I am not convinced based on only the 6 days creation text that this included the angels who could have been about as fallen before this time. It all depends on how you choose to see the 6 days of good creation as comparted to the fallen heavenly host. It is said 1/3 of the angels rebelled and were kicked out of heaven. In the end, WHEN it happened isn't as important to me as what happened as a result and how this has affected not only Adam and Eve but all men from then on. The war is still a ragin' they just moved the battleground to earth. In the book of Job we have Satan approaching God to inquire about Job. Apparently Satan still has some sort of limited access to God Almighty. He also approached Jesus while He was on earth to tempt Him. Satan can approach God yet is not living in heaven. Lots of people speculate on what the actual fruit was. In Sunday school we are taught about talking animals in the Garden Of Eden. As I study these scriptures I am led to believe the whole thing is more of a representation of what happened in layman's terms. We all know there's no such thing as talking snakes. So Satan was a poser. Was the fruit really something edible, or was this a way to explain something we might not have grasped otherwise? On 4/12/2021 at 9:09 PM, Starise said: Oh here is where I had my ideas from- an even more exact detail is provided in Job 38:4-7. There we read, "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" We find that angels (here described as "sons of God") existed before the earth was developed. Therefore, angels existed on the first day of creation in Genesis 1. Without foisting upon the text this is speaking of day one and day four and the Sons of God are not mentioned being present any other time than day four... to take them back to day one is to assume upon the text.... assumptions are outside of the boundary of Scripture ‘thus says The Lord’ parameter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted July 7, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,083 Content Per Day: 9.76 Reputation: 13,562 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 7, 2021 4 hours ago, Shua3000 said: I guess I'm asking because why would God kick Satan out of heaven if Satan had nowhere to go but earth. Did the act of God kicking Satan out of heaven tempt Eve? Why would God send us such opposition? I have had similar thoughts. I see it as Satan got himself kicked out of heaven because he decided to rebel and influence others to rebel. God allows tests for reasons I can only guess at. I think He allowed Satan to test Eve and she failed the test miserably as did Adam. Jesus was tempted and refused the temptation.He showed us the right way to deal with evil which always seems to offer us something we think we want or need in exchange for defiance of our King. An omnipresent being would have known Satan was there. God knew Satan better than he knew himself. Was it an intentional setup? Probably. When we are tested we aren't usually given the answers ahead of time. Was Eve aware of Satan and what he was prior to this? If she had known what he really was I doubt she would have ever spoke with him. Why would God send us such opposition? To separate the good from the bad and deal with it IMHO. 1 hour ago, enoob57 said: Without foisting upon the text this is speaking of day one and day four and the Sons of God are not mentioned being present any other time than day four... to take them back to day one is to assume upon the text.... assumptions are outside of the boundary of Scripture ‘thus says The Lord’ parameter... Very probably true as t103 pointed out.....haven't seen him around lately. Would you say since angels aren't mentioned before this, the take away is they weren't around? I can't with all certainty make that jump because there are still gaps to fill, for me at least. For me when the Bible doesn't say something it's just as important as when it does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 7, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,189 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 7, 2021 15 minutes ago, Starise said: I have had similar thoughts. I see it as Satan got himself kicked out of heaven because he decided to rebel and influence others to rebel. God allows tests for reasons I can only guess at. I think He allowed Satan to test Eve and she failed the test miserably as did Adam. Jesus was tempted and refused the temptation.He showed us the right way to deal with evil which always seems to offer us something we think we want or need in exchange for defiance of our King. An omnipresent being would have known Satan was there. God knew Satan better than he knew himself. Was it an intentional setup? Probably. When we are tested we aren't usually given the answers ahead of time. Was Eve aware of Satan and what he was prior to this? If she had known what he really was I doubt she would have ever spoke with him. Why would God send us such opposition? To separate the good from the bad and deal with it IMHO. Very probably true as t103 pointed out.....haven't seen him around lately. Would you say since angels aren't mentioned before this, the take away is they weren't around? I can't with all certainty make that jump because there are still gaps to fill, for me at least. For me when the Bible doesn't say something it's just as important as when it does. To allow the text to have sway on our hearts and minds we must let it dictate to us our minds and not our minds to it.... I have found a great peace in letting Scripture guide me in it’s precepts and when it says nothing I say nothing... there is a great deal in which I am waiting upon The Lord to reveal to me but I am assured that I intend to be obedient to Him here 2 Corinthians 10:5 (KJV) [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; So many take the liberty to rest upon I think or I feel.... I fear for them for they are in disobedience to His Word... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted July 7, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted July 7, 2021 What makes folks think that other created beings, such as angelic beings weren't created to live in a realm different than and before this universe--the universe of Gen 1? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 7, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,189 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Alive said: What makes folks think that other created beings, such as angelic beings weren't created to live in a realm different than and before this universe--the universe of Gen 1? For me I am instructed by His Word to not allow imagination in any form... only His Word is to frame my thinking: 2 Corinthians 10:5 (KJV) [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; When we began it was in lie and darkness and we are to renew our minds to His Word -Word to mind and not mind to Word- it can only be with a humble spirit yeilded to The Holy Spirit that will make this possible... not doing this narrow path will cause us to leave off from the foundation of the written Word and begin a self authorized mind set not of God... This is why disobedience to His written precepts are so dangerous and why many will perish as they are lost to the precepts of life formed by The Holy Spirit through the written Word of God called Scripture... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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